Debates of Feb. 25th, 1998

The Budget

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Calgary—Nose Hill.

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I guess the finance minister forgot that two years ago he announced clawbacks in taxes of up to 75% on retirement savings.

Anxious older Canadians, unable to plan their retirement, have been waiting while this dithering, delaying finance minister fails to let them know the details of his so-called seniors benefit.

Why the delay? What is his excuse?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I said very clearly this year we will be bringing down the seniors benefit, and we will.

Let me tell members something that will not be in it. The Reform Party in one of its recent documents advocated a $3 billion cut in old age pensions. Let it be very clear, that will not be in it.

What we have said is that we are going to protect those who require help. We are going to make sure that, with an aging population, this country can take care of its senior citizens. We are going to do in the future what we did in the past.

This government and the provinces saved the Canada pension plan. The Reform Party voted against it—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

The employment insurance fund surplus will have exceeded $25 billion by the year 2000. A sizeable portion of that surplus was created by employment insurance cuts, or in other words savings at the expense of the unemployed. Twenty-five billion dollars, that is more or less the total budget for health, education and social assistance in Quebec.

Is the Minister of Finance not ashamed to restore Canada's financial health by the year 2000 at the expense of the unemployed, who are among the poorest members of society?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, when we came to power, there was a $6 billion deficit in the employment insurance fund. Since we have been in power, that shortfall has been eliminated.

When we came to power, unemployment insurance contributions were $3.07. The Conservative Party had intended to raise them to $3.30. We lowered them every year, and today they are down to $2.66. That is a record we can be proud of.

Armenia

[Sarkis Assadourian, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

In consideration of the current political situation in Armenia and the pending elections on March 16, what is the minister prepared to do to ensure that the upcoming elections in Armenia are fair and democratic, and how will Canadian foreign policy promote bilateral economic co-operation between Canada and Armenia?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question.

We have agreed to supply a number of election observers to work through the organization for security and co-operation. It is also important to underline that just last year we signed a major trade agreement and a major foreign investment agreement with Armenia. We are negotiating a taxation agreement.

We want to reinforce those kinds of initiatives by inviting a number of high level visits between Armenians and Canadians, particularly in the business community, to promote our further relationships.

The Budget

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the largest tax increase of the year was not announced in yesterday's budget. It was announced late last year when the Liberals passed their huge CPP tax increase. Canadians felt the first instalment come out of their paycheques in January. The CPP tax increase will continue to balloon over the next three years.

In fact, it is part of the total tax grab of another $48 billion that will have taken place by the year 2000.

How can the minister say he is cutting taxes when the government taxes this year will be at an all time high?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, let us simply take a look at the record. The fact of the matter is this year there was a $1.4 billion cut in employment insurance premiums. In yesterday's budget we cut taxes for students, we cut taxes for single mothers and single families, we cut taxes for 13 million Canadians. In fact, 14 million Canadians saw a tax reduction. We eliminated for all those taxpayers earning $50,000 or less the odious surtax imposed by the kissing cousins of the Reform Party.

The fact is a $7 billion tax cut package was in yesterday's budget.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I can smell that odious thing right now.

Once upon a time there was a hope in this country that maybe, just maybe, once the budget was balanced there would be some prospect of significant tax relief. It was kind of like the faint hope clause for Canadian taxpayers.

But in this budget, when we add together the CPP increases, the bracket creep, the user fees, the hidden taxes, Canadians are paying more taxes now and in the future than ever before in history.

Why could the finance minister not find money for real tax relief but he could find money for another $11 billion in new spending?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, which spending would the hon. member like to abolish? Is the help for students? Is it the help for the single mothers? Or would he like to perhaps take back the $1.5 billion transfer we made to the provinces, the $7 billion in transfers we are going to do over the next five years? Are those the things the hon. member would like to cut? Where are the hon. member's values?

This budget yesterday was about Canadians' needs and—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Colleagues, like you, I am finding it a little difficult sometimes to get the whole debate. I know we are going to settle down a bit.

[Nelson Riis, NDP, Kamloops, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the finance minister has said that the hardest thing he had to do was cut health care. He said he had to do this because of the deficit.

Health care across Canada is in a crisis. Now that he has the money, why did he put no new investment therefore into health care in the budget?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the largest single investment in this budget was the $1.5 billion transfer to the provinces for health care. We have put $134 million more into the Medical Research Council for medical research. We put a substantial amount of money into the national AIDS strategy. We put $60 million into the blood agency.

What the hon. member ought to know is that 80% of all new spending in this budget went to health care and education.

[Nelson Riis, NDP, Kamloops, BC]

Mr. Speaker, only a Liberal would give a person a dollar one day, pay the person a dollar the next day and say he got an increase. The reality is those transfer payments were not an increase.

In the news reports today the Minister of Veterans Affairs, Newfoundland's cabinet minister, has announced that the after-TAGS money will come from the $3 billion contingency fund. Will the Minister of Finance confirm that this is the case and if it is the case, what is he also going to do for the west coast fishery?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, this government is very concerned with the problems of those who are involved in the fishery in Newfoundland. We have demonstrated in the past our great concern and it is obviously a matter to which this government has devoted its attention.

But I have stated in this House, and I will repeat, the contingency reserve will not be spent. It is one of the reasons that we were able to eliminate the deficit and it will not be spent.

[Scott Brison, Progressive Conservative, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday Canadians were waiting to see this imaginary surplus. Instead they had to witness the tax and cut Liberals become the tax and spend Liberals. The surplus has disappeared.

The Minister of Finance may be able to hide the surplus from ordinary Canadians, but what he cannot hide is the Liberal contempt for the ordinary taxpayers of Canada.

Did the Minister of Finance hide this surplus simply to prevent his own caucus from spending it all?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I can well understand that the hon. member would not recognize a surplus if it hit him.

The fact is yesterday we brought down the first balanced budget in 30 years. We have projected three balanced budgets in a row and that would be the first time that has happened in 50 years.

Let us understand that is a very important thing for this country.

The leader of the Conservative Party has stated that deficits are not important. He has said that he would be prepared to cut taxes and see the country go back into debt.

[Scott Brison, Progressive Conservative, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, when we hear the finance minister talk about debt reduction he sounds like a used car dealer. No money down, no payments this year. That is his commitment to debt reduction. It is not a genuine commitment, and we know better.

Canadians are wondering what the Minister of Finance did with the $3 billion reserve fund this year. The fact is he has already spent the $3 billion reserve. Why should Canadians trust that the Minister of Finance will use that $3 billion contingency in the future to pay down the debt when he has demonstrated that he will spend it every chance he gets?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I do not know where the hon. member has been. In our second budget the contingency reserve went to eliminating the deficit 100%. In our third budget it went to eliminating the deficit 100%. In our fourth budget it went to eliminating the deficit 100%.

We laid in place a plan which led to the elimination of the deficit. I can assure the House that it will lead to a substantial reduction in the debt burden of this country.

Ottawa-Carleton Association For Persons With Developmental Disabilities

[David Pratt, Liberal, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Canadian Heritage.

For over two decades the Ottawa-Carleton Association for Persons with Developmental Disabilities has had a federal contract to securely shred classified information. Now it seems that the national archives might be ending this contract, leaving 61 people with developmental disabilities out of a job.

Is the minister prepared to take action to protect these jobs?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for Nepean—Carleton and other hon. members, including the hon. members for Ottawa South, Ottawa West—Nepean, Ottawa—Vanier and a number of others who brought this matter to my attention.

I agree with them that these developmentally disabled people should continue to be employed by the federal government and I intend to take measures to make sure that happens.

The Budget

[Gerry Ritz, Reform, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, after all the hype and the headlines what real change has this budget brought about?

Canadians still pay the highest personal income taxes in the free world. We still have a $583 billion national debt, a second mortgage of $77,000 per Canadian family. Government spending has never been higher in Canadian history.

It did not have to be this way. After all, we had a surplus.

Why did the finance minister blow this money on more spending instead of real tax relief and real debt reduction?