Mr. Speaker, I am also pleased to have the opportunity to speak to Bill C-18. The purpose of the bill, as has already been mentioned, is to give customs officers the authority of a peace officer, which means that they will be able to arrest without warrant certain individuals trying to cross the border who are perhaps suspected of child abduction, impaired driving and so on.
Certainly I am pleased to see these sorts of actions being introduced. It reminds me of a case not so long ago, I think in the Vancouver area, where an impaired driver came to a border crossing and because there was no power for the customs officer to detain the driver he had to be allowed through. It is not an uncommon situation, I would say.
The customs officers notified police but before the police were able to apprehend this person he had already driven off the road and down an embankment. It was by pure luck that he did not hurt anyone. It was a very good illustration of why this type of law is necessary.
Costs to implement these new requirements are a concern, as my colleague mentioned. One of the letters of response to our questions which came from the minister indicated that they estimated the planning and start-up costs to be approximately $5.5 million and that it would take approximately nine months to complete.
The history of the government is that it is woefully lacking in its ability to estimate costs. I rather suspect that this $5.5 million is more likely to be $11 million or $12 million. I will use the example of the Nunavut legislation that went through the House during the last parliament. Reform warned that the estimates for costs in that situation were nowhere near what it would actually cost. Already, in the last month or so, the government is asking for more money for that Nunavut program. We believe it will probably get to $1 billion before the dust settles from an original $100 million estimated by the government.
Notwithstanding the estimates of the government of $5.5 million, I would be surprised if it happens in that cost range. Despite that, we believe these sorts of measures are necessary.
It is quite obvious from the background material that groups like CAVEAT, Canadians Against Violence Everywhere Advocating its Termination, have been a long time lobbying for this type of legislation to be passed. I wonder about the fact that the government is finally responding to public pressure for this sort of legislation.
Is this is a sign that maybe the Liberals are finally getting the message that they have to get tough on crime? I hope this is a sign they are finally recognizing that the public calls for changes to the Young Offenders Act, that the public wants rid of ridiculous conditional sentencing provisions, and that they will actually be acted on. We are going to see some justice restored to what really has become just a legal system.
In that regard I hope the minister will avoid any temptation to interfere and to thwart the activities of customs officers once they have this new power to be able to arrest and detain people suspected of criminal activities. The minister does not have a very good history of allowing people in customs and immigration to carry out their duties.
I can give an example. During the last parliament five or six people arrived from India at the border port of entry at Vancouver International Airport, claiming to be a film crew that was going to make a documentary film all about British Columbia. The immigration officials, upon asking questions of this film crew, discovered that they had no film making equipment and could not answer basic questions about the making of films, so the immigration officials detained them. It was a Friday afternoon. They were put into the lock-up at the Vancouver International Airport.
The Vancouver Sun and several other bleeding hearts jumped on the bandwagon and said that this was racist and that the only reason these people had been detained was that they were from India.
The present Minister of National Revenue also jumped on the bandwagon. He was quoted widely in the news media, claiming that the immigration officials were racist, that they had detained these people for no other reason than racism.
Because of all this lobbying, on the Monday morning the Immigration Refugee Board allowed these people to go free in British Columbia. Surprise, surprise. Within three or four days they had disappeared. Nobody could find them.
About a week or 10 days later these people were arrested in Washington state. They had used Canada as an entry point to the United States. The immigration officials who were the front line people and had asked the right questions had certainly detected those criminals at the border.
The present minister thwarted those efforts. I would hope, now that he is minister of the department, he is treating his officials with a little more respect. Once this act is in law I hope he will not keep doing things like the dismissal of Mr. Coffey, will start to appreciate the skills in the department and will allow the customs people to exercise their rights under the legislation.
Getting a little tough on crime would not hurt. I saw a quote the other day that I think would apply very well to the situation, if customs officers are successful in detaining people who are subsequently convicted of offences. It reflects very well the feelings of Canadians:
We ought to require prisoners to work 48 hours a week and to study 12 hours a week. If we kept them busy for 60 hours a week doing something positive, they would be different people when they came out of prison and prison would have a different impact on them than watching movies and working out on weight machines. If you are not willing to work 48 hours a week and study 12 hours a week you shouldn't get any privileges.
That is a spectacular reflection of how people feel about the whole justice system in Canada. I desperately hope the passage of Bill C-18 is the beginning of some sort of Liberal change of heart that will begin putting some teeth into the justice system.
Security concerns were expressed by the customs union with respect to Bill C-18. It was a bit concerned that adequate training and facilities would have to be provided to ensure the safety of its staff. In consultations with the union and others the minister has assured that new facilities will be built and that there will be adequate training.
As I mentioned earlier, they are expecting that to cost about $5.5 million. Tied into that concern is an amazing figure. The customs department employs 300 students on an ongoing basis to help with customs inspection and 900 students in the summertime. I was amazed when I read those figures. An obvious concern is that the students be adequately trained to deal with the new types of responsibilities that may inadvertently come their way.
The minister indicated that these students will go through a three week training course. I see no mention, though, of any exam at the end of that course. I hope the minister will ensure there is some sort of examination protocol associated with the course, to ensure the people who go through the course are adequately equipped to handle the responsibilities they are given.
Finally I would like to mention that there has been some criticism of the gradual introduction of automatic ports of entry at some border crossings. The unions say the automatic barrier system, which looks at licence plates and allows people in or out, is subject to some problems from time to time. I am astounded that we should worry about it because our borders are so porous anyway. We have this huge and lengthy unpatrolled border. Quite frankly I do not understand why crooks even cross at border crossings.
There are many examples in the Vancouver area where number zero road runs right along the border for about 30 miles or 50 kilometres. All that separates Canada from the United States is a ditch. There have been many examples of smuggling across that border.
A famous case just a couple of years ago involved a store in San Francisco smuggling parrots into Vancouver. They would drive up to the border and put full cages of parrots in the ditch along the highway. After dark someone on the Canadian side would come along and lift the cages out of the ditch.
It is very easy to cross the border around the Vancouver area. There are several trails, like the west coast trail, which go across the border. There is a sign asking one to report to the next customs station whenever it is reached.
It astounds me that so many crooks come across the border and get caught. I hope they retain the same amount of intelligence they already have and continue to do so. Maybe Bill C-18 will help us to intercept them as they come through.
On balance, we support the bill with all its defects. I look forward to voting in favour of Bill C-18.