Debates of March 10th, 1998

Member For Edmonton North

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Mr. Speaker, as the youngest member of caucus in this government, I am obliged to stand in defence of senior citizens in this country.

I and all other members of this house who recently read an article in the Victoria Times were shocked at the comments made by the Reform member for Edmonton North when she spoke of a 73 year old, Mr. Archibald Johnstone. In questioning Mr. Johnstone's energy level at the age of 73 she said: “Sir, retire, get a motorhome and go to Florida”. What a message from the Reform party to senior citizens.

I just want to ask one question. If Senator Johnstone's age was not a factor when he served Canada at the age of 16 as a crew member of the Royal Air Force heavy bomber squadron during World War II, there is no reason why Senator Johnstone cannot serve his country in the Senate.

Senior citizens across the country are outraged to note—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Kamloops.

The Senate

[Nelson Riis, NDP, Kamloops, BC]

Mr. Speaker, one issue that unites Canadians from coast to coast to coast is the issue of Senate reform.

It costs Canadian taxpayers approximately $60 million a year to run the Senate. In overwhelming numbers Canadians want the existing, unelected, unaccountable, undemocratic Senate abolished.

A Senate filled with political hacks, flacks and bagmen has no place in a modern day democracy, but despite his rhetoric the Prime Minister refuses to initiate any process of real Senate reform when opportunities occur.

Recently in British Columbia a Senate vacancy provided an opportunity for the Prime Minister to begin the process of real Senate reform.

The premier of British Columbia supports Senate abolition and Senate reform. The people of B.C. want to abolish the Senate. B.C. is fed up with the Senate. With 13% of the population of Canada it has less than 6% of the seats.

Why does the Prime Minister continue to ignore B.C.? Why does he not listen to the people of British Columbia? Why does he ignore the government and the premier of British Columbia calling for abolition of the Senate?

B.C. does not want another appointed senator. B.C. wants this Senate abolished.

Quebec Flag

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on January 21, 1948, the National Assembly adopted the fleur-de-lys as the official flag of Quebec, and an order-in-council to that effect was enacted on March 9, 1950. The premier of the time made it perfectly clear that this flag was to be the flag of all the people of Quebec.

The fleur-de-lys is a symbol of the pride of Quebeckers, and their sense of belonging to a society which has developed within a context of respect for all cultures, and defence of the French language and culture.

The fleur-de-lys is also a symbol of a people whose duty it is to jealously guard this treasure of their society and to take great care that no government whatsoever will take it over for partisan purposes.

I repeat, it belongs, not to one party, but to all the people of Quebec. This flag is the symbol of past battles for freedom, for the defence of democracy, and for the determination of the people of Quebec to achieve their full potential within a North American cultural context.

Long live the flag of Quebec!

Royal Canadian Mounted Police

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, today Canadian police forces across this country have been meeting with parliamentarians to discuss issues of great concern to them.

One issue relates to the RCMP. And in my province of New Brunswick the provincial government has unilaterally replaced municipal police forces in the city of Moncton with the RCMP. And it plans to do the same in two other municipalities, the villages of Grand Bay and Westfield.

Our municipal police forces are worried, and rightfully so. When the RCMP comes in and takes over there is no guarantee that municipal police officers will be hired. Those who are hired do not enjoy the same employee rights that they once did under the provincial law.

Today these officers are in the gallery and are asking for a very simple measure from this government. On behalf of them, I urge the solicitor general to instruct the RCMP to adopt a takeover and hiring protocol similar to that employed by the Ontario Provincial Police.

Investments In Canada

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, after the federal budget's prediction that the deficit would be eliminated, Statistics Canada has released some interesting figures on investment forecasts.

Businesses and public administrations predict record investments of $120 billion in facilities and equipment in 1998, which is 5.5% more than last year. Quebec's performance should exceed the Canadian average. This is a good argument in favour of keeping Quebec within Canada.

In the private sector, the situation will also be favourable. For example, shipping companies project investments of $6 billion in 1998, $1 billion more than in 1997. In Quebec, investments will exceed the Canadian average for the first time in three years, and should increase by 8.4% this year, compared to 6.2% for the country as a whole.

Such reports destroy the sovereignist myth that the Canadian economy—

[The Speaker]

We will now proceed to oral question period. The Hon. Leader of the Official Opposition.

Cuba

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday a prominent Liberal MP compared life under Cuba's dictatorship to life in Frank McKenna's New Brunswick. After all, he said, both Castro and McKenna held all the seats in their legislatures. This MP was speaking as a representative of this House and these remarks might even be viewed by some as the position of the government. Does the government agree with these outrageous statements?

[The Speaker]

Colleagues, I would judge that question is quite borderline. I would ask the hon. Leader of the Opposition to be very judicious in posing his other questions. I will permit the question if the hon. Deputy Prime Minister wishes to answer it.

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition did not identify the member in question but I can say if he is referring to press reports that the individual in question was not speaking on behalf of the government and was not expressing the position of the government.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, Cuba has no freedom of the press, no real political freedoms and Castro throws his political opponents in jail. But this prominent Liberal MP whose views could be construed as those of the House or the government denied that human rights in Cuba were a problem, saying it was an internal matter that we should not criticize. He said that Castro's jailed political opponents were just so-called political prisoners—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

In the preamble of the question, although no member was mentioned, I find that any statements made by the Speaker do not fall under the administrative responsibility of the government. I had asked the hon. member to please be judicious in his words and I will pass on. The hon. member for Fraser Valley.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, today Canada hosts U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, a representative of one of our closest allies and our strongest economic partner. She is here to discuss issues of mutual concern including human rights issues. So imagine our surprise to wake up this morning to see the headlines in our national newspaper that scream out outrageously “Speaker lauds Cuban democracy”.

What is the Prime Minister—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Laurier—Sainte-Marie.

Employment Insurance

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on March 4, in Rivière-du-Loup, the Minister of Human Resources Development acknowledged that an employment insurance plan covering only 42% of unemployed workers was inadequate.

According to Mr. Fortin's study, not only is the plan inadequate, but it encourages people to leave the labour market and go on welfare.

Will the minister acknowledge that a very high proportion of the 58% of unemployed workers excluded from his plan have no choice but to turn to welfare?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, as I said yesterday in this House, I am delighted that the number of people on welfare in Quebec is at its lowest in the past five years.

This is certainly the result of the economic reforms in this country, which have led to improved growth in the labour market. Because we have a dynamic market and we have corrected certain systems that were operating very badly, our economy is running better.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, while the number of welfare cases has dropped in Quebec, the minister neglected to say that it would have dropped even more had it not been for his plan, because people no longer entitled to unemployment insurance end up on welfare. This was eloquently demonstrated by Professor Fortin.

Does the minister, who is always talking about his active measures, realize that the measures he is proposing have contributed to reducing participation in the job market to its lowest point in 50 years because people are hesitant to take jobs that are too precarious? They know that they will no longer be entitled to employment insurance and so they turn to welfare. That is the reality, not what the minister's technocrats see.

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I find it staggering that the government is being criticized for the additional million jobs in Canada we now have. This means our economy is running smoothly.

Second, people on welfare in fact do have the opportunity to benefit from active measures, because we broadened access to these measures, as people, whether they be on welfare when they qualify or on employment insurance when they are unemployed, want active measures to be able to return to the labour market.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the minister was patting himself on the back for having made it possible, through his so-called reform, for 450,000 more women to have the pleasure of contributing to employment insurance.

The real question, however, is this: Does the minister admit that, according to his own department's estimates, only 10% of these 450,000 women contributors will one day have any hope of gaining access to EI benefits?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the improvements we have made to the employment insurance system met the aspirations of women, who are far more likely to be part-time workers.

What we are pleased to have accomplished is that people can now accumulate hours worked, sometimes in two or three different jobs, so that they are insured, where they were not in the past.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, a mistake has to be acknowledged before it can be corrected. The minister's problem is that he is determined to deny the evidence.

How can the minister continue to defend his reform, when it is clear that far fewer unemployed people will draw benefits than in the past, that a large number of them will have no choice but to go on welfare, and that Ottawa will save billions of dollars yearly at their expense, as a result of this reform?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, we are greatly concerned by the fact that participation in the employment insurance system has dropped, and I have acknowledged this in the House on numerous occasions.

This is something we need to understand more thoroughly before decisions are made, because that is how we operate. We need to understand why this drop has occurred, before we can find an effective solution to the problem.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

You are not helping unemployed workers.