Madam Speaker, I am keen to take part in today's debate for, as the deputy critic on human resources, I am extremely interested in the funding of education. I am also aware of the real problems in Quebec. What the federal government is doing is not suited to Quebec.
The motion tabled today by my colleague from Lac-Saint-Jean focuses on a debate on the importance of the future of education in Quebec and the threat the federal government is posing to the entire system of education in Quebec.
The motion reads as follows:
That this House censure any action by the federal government in the area of education, such as the introduction of the Millennium Scholarships program or national testing.
Why are we so upset by the new measures in the budget the Minister of Finance has just delivered? Because the Minister of Finance, through the creation of the millennium fund, is meddling in a provincial jurisdiction and preventing Quebec from withdrawing from the program with all sorts of shenanigans. We know they are tricky.
They also want to have national testing and this too is clearly an indication of just how meddling the Liberals and the Conservatives can be. This testing reveals the Liberal government's bad faith and bad habit of trying to introduce national testing in education.
What have they written about it? I will read it to you. It is contained in the action plan on page 30 of the red book written in 1993. So it is not the freshest strategy. This desire of the government to meddle in the jurisdictions of the provinces has been around for a long time. I will read just a short passage. “A Liberal government, in collaboration with provincial governments, will introduce a voluntary National Achievement Test in math, science, and technology so that students and their parents will be able to compare their work in this area and track the progress of our educational systems in meeting the goal of higher achievement for our students in math and science”. What business does the federal government have interfering? And they have just told us they do not want any conflict. When you do not want any conflict, you respect your partner.
They tell us they want a genuine partnership, but what kind of partnership is possible with such an associate? This centralizing attitude is not confined to education. Take the drinking water bill, which is a direct threat to the activities planned in this field in Quebec, and the Canadian Securities Commission, which would mean the short or long term transfer of all activities in this exclusively provincial field to Toronto.
What is the government up to and why is it making such a deal of it? Is it trying to win over a group that has to be won over? Is it a question of partisan visibility? This visibility precludes effectiveness. That is the Liberals for you.
They want millennium scholarships to be awarded on the basis of merit. Once again, they will not reach agreement with Quebec because Quebec does not want to focus on merit alone. Need is also important. Is the government really going to alleviate the problem of indebtedness?
For a period of ten years, beginning in 2000, a budget of over $2.5 billion has been earmarked for the fund. The provinces have just been cut $10 billion and there are cuts in provincial transfer payments. The figures show that we have dropped from 23.5% in 1992 to 15% today. Provincial transfer payments have been cut by over 8%.
Why interfere in an area of provincial jurisdiction, such as education? I can understand that the other provinces do not have systems as well established as Quebec's, but Quebec is entitled to serious compensation. We have just heard a motion about respect for a distinct society. This will be accomplished not just through words, but also through actions. This government's actions with respect to the millennium scholarships are at odds with its fine words, its empty motions to show us it cares. Quebec was cut $3 billion to be put towards the millennium scholarships.
Why are they bent on interfering in Quebec's jurisdictions? I think it was a wish to mark the new millennium. As my colleague said earlier, they could just have put up a great big flashy sign pointing out that the federal government was giving $3 billion, say, to Quebec as it entered the third millennium. But no, it prefers to go and cosy up to clients, and I find that completely unacceptable and partisan.
Earlier I heard a member opposite telling us “We are well aware of the student debt problem”. If Quebec is not aware of the problem, this is not what we are hearing in the field. On average in Quebec the student debt is $11,000 against $17,000 to $25,000 in English Canada, in the other provinces.
As for tuition fees, the Quebec government is well aware they have to be kept very low; they are $1,700 in Quebec against $3,200 elsewhere. This is what students are telling us.
Many people are against the creation of the millennium scholarships. The population was polled on this issue. Several stakeholders in the education field told us “This is a waste, a bad strategy”. If we were to believe the Liberal members, they hold the key to the truth. They told us a while ago we were talking through our hat.
Polls tell us that 48.5% of the population wants the provinces to manage these scholarships. A meagre 16% said the federal government should manage them. And only 22% said they were designed to help students. This poll was carried out by Sondagem for Le Soleil and Le Devoir .
Another poll carried out by Angus Reid for The Globe and Mail , I do not believe it is a sovereignist daily, showed that 71% were in favour of prioritizing transfer to the provinces.
That is what the premiers told the Prime Minister at the June conference. But the Prime Minister always goes for half-truths. They talked about the student debt, but they said the issue should be dealt with through an agreement with the provinces. When you want to reach an agreement with someone—as you and I know, this is how its is done in a couple—when you want to agree on something with your spouse you do not play a trick on him or her as the government just did. The way to go about it is to sit down and say what you plan to do. If you are seeking a different arrangement, you know when you are listened to that you are respected; this is not what I am seeing on the part of the government.
Some columnists are not very favourable to sovereignty. We are often told that in Quebec we have sovereignist plans in mind. Lysiane Gagnon from La Presse said “This is a glaring case of duplication”. She then added, and I quote “In Quebec, these scholarships will be grafted onto an already well subsidized system with a proven track record. The criteria are different”.
Again, how are we going to agree if the criteria used by the federal government and the province of Quebec are different? She adds “Provincial policies will be thwarted”.
What did Alain Dubuc, from La Presse , have to say? “The cat is out of the bag”. This is bad federalism and these politicians belong to another generation. They are out of touch and already one of them is realizing that her older colleagues are hanging on to an outdated attitude.
The Liberal government has no right to act as it is acting, according to Alain Dubuc, who often agrees with the positions of the Liberal government.
Earlier, we were told that we, the members from Quebec, were to blame. But even Daniel Johnson said that the provincial areas of jurisdiction have to be respected.
Whether you read the red book or the blue book, it is six of one and half a dozen of the other. The red book is entitled Preparing Canada for the 21st Century . The blue book is Charest's Plan for Canada in the 21st century. What the Conservatives and the Liberals are proposing is the same thing. They agree that provincial areas of jurisdiction must be respected. What we are asking for is real respect for provincial areas of jurisdiction, which is why we have moved this motion today. This motion asks that the provincial areas of jurisdiction be respected. It is not a minor motion concerning the distinct society that will be voted on in the House of Commons and forgotten about when the time comes to match actions to words.
Let me conclude by saying that I hope the Liberal government will listen to what Quebec wants in this area.