Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to speak to Motion No. 75 put forward by the hon. member for Kamloops.
Veterans status is a unique honour and it confers special privileges to those who have served Canada. In recognition of the sacrifices they made a grateful nation has provided benefits to help provide for their war related needs. I consider it an honour to play a role as parliamentary secretary in the government's approach on veterans issues.
This motion, as it is written now, would give veteran status and benefits only to those Canadians who fought for one side in the Spanish civil war. Let me remind my hon. colleague that Canadians fought on both sides in the civil war.
Canadians answered the call to serve their country during two world wars, the Korean War, and in several peacekeeping operations.
However, as the member mentioned, some Canadians served under different flags, during other conflicts, notably with the opposing factions during the Spanish civil war.
About 1,300 Canadians volunteered for the international brigade to fight against Franco. Incidentally, in the first hour of debate of this motion, the member for Chateauguay indicated that 52 countries participated in the civil war. I do not know where the member got that figure. But of the 1,300 Canadians who participated, some fought in the Mackenzie-Papineau battalion, the Mac-Paps, others in the Abraham Lincoln battalion, the British battalion and other units. They suffered heavy causalities. Only 646 returned to Canada.
Let me make it very clear about the government's view of their efforts. No one will deny that these Canadians fought bravely. No one will deny that they believed deeply in the cause for which they fought. They were not fighting for Canada. They were fighting in direct contravention of Canadian policy and Canadian law.
I remind this House that Canada had a policy of neutrality in the civil war that divided Spain. It was a sound policy. If the hon. member for Kamloops believes that Canada should have weighed in on one side or the other of the Spanish civil war, I ask him to look back to the political realities of those times.
In 1937 J.S. Woodsworth, one of the founders of the CCF, which we all know is the precursor of the New Democratic Party, presented a motion to this House advocating strict neutrality in all European conflicts. To enforce Canada's neutrality, this House passed the Foreign Enlistment Act in 1937. It continues in force to this day. It prohibits Canadians from joining the armed forces of, or otherwise supporting, a foreign state which is waging war against another foreign state which is on friendly terms with Canada.
The government has authority to make regulations to apply this act to civil war. That is what it did with respect to Spain in 1937. On July 31 of that year it became a crime to fight on either side of the Spanish civil war.
Although in previous speeches some members mentioned that these Canadians were subject to job discrimination and surveillance by the RCMP, to the best of my knowledge no veteran of the Spanish civil war has ever been prosecuted under this law.
It is important to remember that these men disregarded the law and by adopting this motion we would in effect reward them for doing so. I would ask hon. members to consider what kind of precedent this would set. What kind of example does it make for young people today? Are we saying that it is permissible to violate the law rather than work through democratic processes to change it?
Are we going to set a precedent granting the status of veteran not only to those who served Canada when their country called them, but also to those who served under a foreign flag in a conflict in which Canada had remained neutral? What message would we be sending to Canadian veterans? This would stain the honour granted those who answered their country's call and who fought for Canada.
Moreover, I wonder if the member for Kamloops has contacted the Royal Canadian Legion to obtain its views. I have a letter addressed to the Minister of Veterans Affairs from the president of the Royal Canadian Legion, Dominion Command:
Dear Minister:
[The member for Kamloops] recently presented a private member's motion recommending the government consider the advisability of giving the members of the MacKenzie-Papineau Battalion and other Canadians who fought with Spanish Republican forces in the Spanish civil war the status of veterans under federal legislation.
The Royal Canadian Legion does not support the granting of veterans status to those who fought in the Spanish civil war. It was an offence under Canadian law at the time to fight on any side during that war. The Legion supports the rule of law and does not view it as appropriate to advocate a position at this late date which would in effect legitimize that which was illegal at the time. This could set an untenable precedent.
Yours sincerely,
Joseph Kobolak
Dominion President.
In fact, adopting this motion would open the floodgates to other groups such as Canadian veterans of the Vietnam war who, contrary to what the member for Chateauguay said in his speech, do not qualify under our legislation for Canadian veteran status.
This is an emotional issue. It deals with elderly Canadians who in their youth were governed by their conscience to risk their lives in one of the most brutal conflicts of the century. They fought like heroes and left many of their comrades behind in the cemeteries of Spain.
As I said earlier, no one is denying their courage and their commitment to their cause. Although the motion does not specifically call for it, the member for Kamloops mentioned that we should look at the possibility of setting this issue before a committee. As the member for the Progressive Conservative Party said, this issue has been raised in this House many times, the most recent being in 1986-87 when the standing committee on veterans affairs, chaired by a former member from Malpeque in my home province, studied the issue in great detail. After very careful research, deliberation and consideration that committee decided against recommending veteran status to Spanish civil war veterans.
I do not think this House in responding today to the motion from the hon. member for Kamloops should overturn the considered judgment of the committee that took several months to look into the issue in great detail.
I ask my colleagues to vote against the motion. In so doing I remind the House of the words of the report that the committee tabled on the issue. I think those words speak eloquently of the Canadians who fought in the MacKenzie-Papineau Battalion. Many were killed, the report says. Many endured great hardship and displayed great courage. We mourn the loss and admire the qualities these men displayed. They acted out of conscience and this merits respect whether one agrees with them or not. May their twilight years be spent with the comfort of their own beliefs in the cause they served.
However, Canadian veteran status and veterans benefits are reserved for those who fought for Canada. That is how the law should remain. That is why I am voting against this motion and I urge my honourable colleagues to do the same.