Debates of April 27th, 1998

Hepatitis C

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member should remember that the government has one position. It was a position that was developed with all governments in the country. It is an offer of compensation of $1.1 billion, to which we are contributing $800 million, to the 22,000 victims in the period of 1986 to 1990.

The hon. member should also remember that we do not and we cannot compensate people because they become ill. If we did that we would not have a health care system.

We are offering compensation during a period where governments could and should have acted. That is the right thing to do.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, this is a shameful position. It is a case of government negligence.

These are the facts. All the Deputy Prime Minister's so-called deal allows hepatitis C victims like Karen to do is to take advantage of health care services that already exist. Thank you very little.

Instead of a deal for Liberal backbenchers when will we see compensation for all hepatitis C victims, victims like Karen? When?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, first, if we were to do what the hon. member suggests we would not have a health care system for very long because we would not be able to afford it.

Second, the hon. member should talk about this issue with his colleague from Macleod, because the hon. member for Macleod last Thursday in the House accepted the point that governments should not pay cash to people who are injured when there is no fault. “No fault, no compensation, I accept”. Those were his words.

The hon. member should talk to his colleague. He understands this issue. The hon. member should try as well.

Asbestos Industry

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister.

Following the recent decision of the Council of Europe to ban asbestos products, the situation is becoming increasingly difficult and the asbestos industry is asking the federal government to change its strategy.

Does the government agree that diplomacy has failed and that the time has come to file an official complaint with the WTO?

[Julian Reed, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, I should point out to the hon. member that the Council of Europe has no legislative power to ban anything.

Canada continues to work with Quebec and with France to achieve a positive result. We have been asked if we are willing to take this to the World Trade Organization. At the appropriate time we will, but this is not the appropriate time.

We will continue to work through the channels we have started in order to obtain a positive result.

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the question was simple and called for a straight answer. When does the government intend to file a complaint with the WTO?

[Julian Reed, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, we will have to make that decision when we feel the time is appropriate. We do not feel the time is appropriate yet.

Hepatitis C

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the health minister has chosen to quote my words in the House last week. He says that when there is no fault there should be no compensation.

What did Justice Krever say about the fault of the federal regulator as it related to hepatitis C? He said that the federal government was negligent. That is fault from where I stand. That is why we want compensation for all victims of hepatitis C.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the Krever report made it clear that fault on the part of the federal regulator was in January 1986 not insisting that the test be put in place.

The hon. member is caught by the facts of this case. Any fair reading of the Krever report makes it clear that it was January 1986 on that the federal regulator should have insisted that the test be put in place. The hon. member has said that we should not pay cash compensation except where there is fault.

I invite him, in view of his position and in view of the Krever findings, to withdraw his motion before the House.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, let me go to the source himself, Judge Krever.

During the 1980s the federal bureau of biologics did not decide independently whether to use its authority. Instead it depended upon the Red Cross. In effect it made itself dependent on an organization whose activities it was supposed to regulate. That is why Judge Krever said to compensate all victims of hepatitis C without regard.

Why does not the health minister do exactly what Judge Krever said?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, it is quite clear that in the statement he made last Thursday the hon. member has adopted the position of the government.

Our position has been that we cannot simply pay people because they become ill. The sympathy we feel for people who become ill is reflected in the fact that we maintain one of the world's best systems of health care and we provide them with that care.

When governments pay cash compensation, we have said, should depend upon an element of fault. The hon. member has agreed and in view of the position we have expressed I think he should withdraw the motion he has put before the House.

B.C. Mine In Black Lake

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, since the B.C. mine in Black Lake closed, six months ago, the 250 former workers have been asking for a joint support program to help stabilize their income. The minister continues to turn a deaf ear and is only prepared to fund so-called active measures.

Since only six of the 250 workers benefited from the minister's programs, when will he finally realize that active measures are simply not working in this particular case?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, last week I met with representatives from the mine that is unfortunately closed. Six former employees have already benefited from the active measures, while 40 to 50 are interested in training for other jobs. The courses will begin in August and September.

Our government was the first to take action following the mine closure, by allocating $3 million for active measures designed to help these workers. There are other possibilities, and we will help workers, because they want to work.

North Korea

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister for International Co-operation.

Efforts are continuing worldwide to address the severe food shortages in North Korea. Could the minister tell us and the House what Canada's efforts are in this area?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister for International Cooperation and Minister responsible for Francophonie]

Mr. Speaker, Canada has contributed almost $15 million to the crisis in North Korea. This was the largest contribution of food aid to any country last year and $2 million of that aid came directly from Canadians through the Canada Food Grains Bank.

We will continue to monitor the situation because Canadians care and want to help.

Hepatitis C

[Randy White, Reform, Langley—Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, there is one terrible undemocratic fact in the hepatitis C issue, and that is the government is whipping its members to do what is wrong and vote against hep C victims.

I have a question for the Deputy Prime Minister. What is the punishment for backbenchers in doing what is right in voting for hep—

[The Speaker]

I find the question, as it is put, is not in order. I see the Deputy Prime Minister standing to answer it. If he wishes to address himself to it he may. If not I will take the next question.

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, it is a hypothetical question. The vote has not taken place. I am confident the government's position will be upheld.

In any event the hon. member is out of order. I do not know how he can ask a question of a party whip.

[Randy White, Reform, Langley—Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is not a hypothetical question to thousands of hepatitis C victims, is it?

Let me ask this minister of no compassion where in the government's throne speech, in its election platform or in the rules of the House, does it say they will whip their members to vote against their conscience?

[The Speaker]

The hon. Deputy Prime Minister if he wishes to answer.

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, where in the Reform Party platform is it stated what they did to Jim Silye and Jan Brown?

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, reports out of the Deputy Prime Minister's office today pertaining to the hepatitis C compensation matter show that the government is really working hard to try to take the sting out of tomorrow's vote. I want members to know that the leadership of the Hepatitis C Society has said that such statements are meaningless and that the requirement for blood injured Canadians is still the same, fair compensation for all.

Will the government reopen the discussions and put in place an agreement that is fair for all blood injured Canadians?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, all the governments of Canada have entered into an agreement that is fair. It reflects the reality that if we are going to keep a publicly funded health care system in this country and operate on the right principles then we should offer cash payments to people who were harmed in a way that was avoidable. That is the principle. That is the policy that underlies this position. It is a position that is shared by every government including the governments of British Columbia and Saskatchewan.

We have made an agreement and an offer to the victims based on the right principles.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, today in the House the member for Etobicoke—Lakeshore announced on behalf of the government a study of the way in which hepatitis C disease progresses. She talked about training adjudicators and setting up a centre for excellence. That is trifling with the realities of blood injured Canadians. The blood injured do not need studies to tell them how the disease is progressing. They live with it each and every day.

Why is the government offering a dry twig to blood injured Canadians instead of an olive branch?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member knows it is not appropriate to offer cash payments to people because they become ill. I do not think anyone suggests we can run a country like that. We have offered cash payments to people who were harmed in a way that could have been avoided if governments had acted in a timely fashion. That is what underlies this offer of settlement.

As to research, it is in the interests of all victims of hepatitis C that research focus on treatments and cures if we could find them. It is in the interests of all hep C victims that we do what we can to improve the quality of treatment.