Debates of April 29th, 1998

Hepatitis C

[Reed Elley, Reform, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I think the minister should read the newspaper. He will find out what the public is having trouble with right now and it is not the Reform Party.

For weeks the health minister has been exaggerating the number of hep C victims who were infected before 1986. He does this to scare Canadians, to make them think we had to throw these sick people out of the compensation lifeboat.

Will the health minister stop pulling numbers out of the air, table the documents in this House to back up his claim? Will he put up and shut up?

[The Speaker]

Let us quiet down a bit. Colleagues on both sides, I would ask you to be very judicious in your choice of words. I will permit the hon. Minister of Health to answer the question if wants to.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I will go half way. I am prepared to put up if he will do the other half.

Multilateral Agreement On Investment

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Speaker, officially the negotiations on the multilateral agreement on investment have been suspended for six months. However, we have learned that technical negotiations, as they are called, will continue in the meantime within the OECD.

Can the Prime Minister tell us whether or not negotiations have indeed been suspended for six months?

[Julian Reed, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, I am able to refer to a ministerial statement issued by the OECD which states that the group will meet again in October of this year.

I should also point out that the Canadian Conference of the Arts has issued the following statement talking about my minister: “Minister Marchi has done much to make the process of—”

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Repentigny.

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the parliamentary secretary has just told us that negotiations will continue behind closed doors.

Canada was calling for negotiations to continue in the future under the aegis of the WTO so that developing countries could take part.

Since the other members of the OECD do not seem to agree with this, what will the Government of Canada do?

[Julian Reed, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, now I can reply to the secrecy charge. The bulletin says “The minister has done much to make the process of negotiating trade agreements much more transparent to the Canadian public. The CCA has been most favourably impressed with the ease of access to Canadian trade negotiators and information about the process itself. The minister has ushered in a new era for these negotiations where interested Canadians can inform themselves and participate in the shaping of ideas and positions of Canada—”

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Fraser Valley.

Hepatitis C

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is interesting that the backbench is good for asking those lobbed questions but I have a question for the Minister of Health.

A moment ago the minister said that he would come half way, that he would put up when it came to putting up the numbers on how many hepatitis C victims deserve to be compensated here in Canada. He has been using figures as high as 60,000. The centre for disease control says that there are probably only 15,000.

When he says he will put up, does that mean he will table those documents today in the House of Commons? Let him show how many hep C victims really deserve that.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, every health department in the country, every minister of every government in Canada worked together on this issue. We examined the history. We had estimates. Some provinces had looked at trace back programs. We operated on good solid information in coming to the position we developed.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, he said he would put up. I take it that means he is going to put up the documents. He said he would come half way. We take the minister at his word on this one, I think.

Will he put forward today, table the documents today, to show how many hepatitis C victims were infected by hepatitis C contaminated blood before 1986? Will he put those numbers before the House today, like he promised, so we can get on with the debate on those numbers?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has not kept his part of the bargain.

We also said that governments across this country had good information when they came to their position. They developed an agreement based on the assessment of the facts developed by departments of health across Canada. Indeed some provinces actually had trace back programs that identified specific numbers of people infected by bad blood.

We proceeded on good information in developing this policy.

National Defence

[René Laurin, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

The auditor general was very critical of National Defence. He stated, with proof, that the military wasted over $2 billion on equipment it did not need and on products that failed to meet its safety requirements.

Will the minister continue to look the other way and try to make people believe that their money is well spent for the military or will he decide to take every means possible to correct the situation?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, many of the comments the auditor general made are very helpful to the Department of National Defence. I should point out that his comments deal with what has gone on in the past. Some of these purchases relate to things that were done by the previous government prior to our taking office in 1993.

We learn lessons from all these. We have made changes and we will continue to make changes in future to make sure that our military gets the equipment it needs and make sure it is cost effective and is money well spent in defence of this country.

Francophone Information Highway

[Claude Drouin, Liberal, Beauce, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Canadian Heritage.

What is the minister doing to assist with the development of a francophone information highway across Canada?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I believe that everyone should be proud that Canada is the first country in the world to have a college that is accessed by computer. This Canadian francophone college is called Collège Boréal. It owes its funding to the support of parliamentarians.

Second, before long, I hope we will be able to announce that we in Canada have the first virtual university in the world. It too will be in French, here in Canada.

Hepatitis C

[Keith Martin, Reform, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I had a question prepared today but I am not going to ask it.

Thousands of Canadians are watching on these cameras, thousands of people infected by hepatitis C. The Minister of Health said he was going to put up for these people. Is he going to put up for those victims or is he going to tell them to shut up like he has told us?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, we have had ample occasion during the last four weeks in this House and elsewhere to discuss this difficult issue. Throughout the debate we have made it very clear this government, along with every other government in Canada, has taken a responsible approach to offer to pay cash to those who were harmed because of fault on the part of the people who should have run the system better. For all the others our most important moral duty is to make sure there is a health care system there to protect and look after them as they become ill.

We intend to respect both these responsibilities.

[Keith Martin, Reform, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, nobody in the House disagrees that this is a difficult decision. Everybody on this opposition side and indeed most of the people in the minister's party want to see a resolution for these people.

Watching today is Jennifer from my constituency who contracted hepatitis C after surgery. Once again, is the Minister of Health going to close the door on these people or is he going to give them a window of opportunity and some hope by providing compensation while they are unable to work, while they are unable to—

[The Speaker]

The hon. Minister of Health.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, our first and most important obligation to Jennifer and all the other victims referred to yesterday, including all the victims I have met in the last 12 months, is to make sure we have the best health care system in the world, to make sure our social programs, whether disability benefits or others, are available to them in their time of need.

This government, along with all other governments in this country, has come to a responsible decision on compensation so that we can preserve the things that Jennifer needs most.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Health says the file on compensation for blood injured Canadians is closed. It is not closed for Darlene Nicolaas who got hepatitis C from a transfusion in 1985. It is not closed for Susan Wish whose husband is too ill to coach his children's sports teams.

The minister just said he is prepared to put up. I want to know from him what he is prepared to put up. Are there or are there not any specific measures for excluded hepatitis C victims?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the governments of Canada dealt with the file of compensation and it is closed.

There is a second file on the desk of every minister of health of every government in this country. It is called medicare. It is called quality health care for all Canadians.

For Darlene Nicolaas, for Susan Wish and for all the other victims we can bring to mind, our most important responsibility is to make sure that through medical research, through quality care, through innovations we have talked about like home care and pharmacare, we provide what those victims need most.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister in this House has many times made the incredible statement that compensation for blood injured Canadians would bankrupt the health care system.

I want to ask the Minister of Justice if she can tell the House today how much money she has budgeted for fighting hepatitis C victims in the courts. Why is there money for lawyers and not for blood injured Canadians?