Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to speak in the debate on Bill S-5.
I cannot resist the temptation when we have a bill labelled S-5 instead of C something, to comment again on the erosion of democracy around here. It is still very offensive to me that instead of coming through the House of Commons which is the house of representational government, all members here having been elected by the people out there, instead of having a bill come from this House, it comes from the Senate.
I do not wish in any way to take two hours to talk about the Senate today. That has already been done. But I think it is appropriate at this occasion to draw attention to the fact once more that we have things turned around here. The Senate should be elected.
In this country we believe in democracy. We believe in representational government. We believe in, as this bill states, the worth of individual people. How is it then that there is a body of people in government that has such tremendous power over our well-being, over the way our rules are designed that govern us, that is not even elected? I find that particularly offensive. The people in my riding and certainly in my home province of Alberta do as well. That has to be changed.
It would be really wonderful if the Senate were truly elected. Then when it came up with a bill labelled S-5, from the Senate of Canada, we would say fine, it is from a parliamentary body that is equal to this place. We would not have to feel that we were somehow being made second class citizens here because a body that has no accountability, at least technically it does not and practically it does not appear to have either, is lording it over us. I cannot help but talk about that.
Then there is a second thing which was so well illustrated here just a few days ago. Even in this House, where members are elected, they are not given the freedom to vote the way they believe their constituents would want them to vote, or the way their hearts and their conscience would demand. Now how do you say this and still stay friendly? We have trouble right here in river city, river city being the city of two rivers, Ottawa. That trouble is due to representational democracy where the reflection of the will of the people of Canada is vested in the power that is given to a very small group of individuals.
I for one am very happy and very proud to be in a party where I am required to represent my constituents. Not only am I permitted to do so, but I am out of step with my party if I fail to do so. That is very important.
I talk about the Senate lacking legitimacy. To a degree what has happened in this place over and over again in this parliament and previous parliaments under Liberal and Conservative governments is the party whips have these clones I guess we would call them. I do not want to refer to a barnyard animal so I will just call them clones. And we know the most famous clone happens to be one of those barnyard animals which makes a baa noise. I will not talk about that at all. It is really unfortunate that we do not have true democracy.
If we had true democracy we would end up with better rules. It is not right for me to say that I am always right. I know that is a surprise to you, Mr. Speaker, but I will confess and admit that. I have on occasion been wrong and I will be wrong again. The strength of society is that when I make an error those around me will point that out. They will say “Sir, you are wrong”. If enough of my trusted friends say that to me, I am quite likely to change my mind.
In fact I changed my mind very recently on an issue when talking with a friend. I believe very strongly in something, not a principle but a process that we were following. This individual told me the process was flawed and gave a reason why the process was flawed. After talking with him for half an hour I told him it pained me deeply to admit it but yes, he was right and I was wrong.
I have to admit that yesterday I made an error. One of my colleagues asked me what the area of a circle is if when one walked around it it was one kilometre in circumference. I computed it. My colleague said he did not think my computation was correct. I said I would check my arithmetic. We worked at it together. I am a math major and I taught math for 31 years. I have to hang my head in shame and say I made a mistake. I actually made a mathematical error and here I am right across the country now via the wonderful television channel CPAC confessing that I made a mathematical error and that my colleague corrected me. Having realized that I was wrong, I admitted that I had made a mistake.
To me that is a strength. When someone can show me evidence that something is wrong then I am really a fool if I do not change my mind. That is really the essence of it.
The real strength of democracy is that if we have true democracy, surely the best and most valuable legislation, that which is best for our society, best for our taxpayers and best for our children will bubble to the surface like cream rises to the top. Or at least it did in my day. Before everything was homogenized and pasteurized and everything the cream would go to the top. The best laws would bubble to the top if we allowed interaction where I would say to my colleagues “You have a vote and I have a vote. Let us discuss the issue. Let us debate it”.
Still on this topic of democratic accountability and true democracy in this country, yes, this bill came from the Senate, but what is going to happen to it here? Will the individual members be able to look at the items in the bill? Will any of them be able to say “This bill has a serious flaw or two and I would like to see it amended”? Will that happen?
I wish it could. I wish it would. There are indeed a few things in here which should be amended. There are some flaws, but the fact of the matter is that our observation and our experience has been that an amendment can be ever so fine but it is turned down.
Even if it is presented in committee it is turned down, not by those who have heard our reasoned arguments, but by the instructions that come down from the minister who says to the members of the committee “Don't approve that amendment”. That is wrong. There is a flaw in our process.
I know the parliamentary secretary is asking whether we proposed amendments to this bill. The answer is no, we did not. Why? I suppose there is perhaps a streak of cynicism setting in with some of our members who say “What's the use? It doesn't happen anyway”.
Maybe that is not what happened here, but it happens over and over again. It certainly has happened in the committees that I have served on. Members work their buns off trying to make good, reasoned amendments. More than once in committees I have convinced members, not only in opposition, but also government members, that an amendment should be adopted.
I taught for 31 years. I think I have a fair ability to judge body language. I know when people are with me or when they are agin me. When members say to me “That is a good amendment”, I know in their heart they would like to vote in favour of it.
When we consider a bill clause by clause in committee those same members say to me “It is a good idea. I agree with you”. They say that to me privately or even across the table in committee, but when it is time to vote they look at their instructions and oppose it.
That is a fundamental flaw in democracy. It results in laws being not as good as they could be or as they should be.
I want to talk a bit about justice. This bill will amend several acts. It will amend the Canada Evidence Act. It will amend the Criminal Code. It will also amend the Canadian Human Rights Act.
There is a lot in this bill that is really valuable and really worthwhile. There is a lot in this bill that is right and that is worthy of our support as representatives of the people who elected us. There are also, as I said, some flaws.
I want to spend a few minutes, since I have lots of time in my intervention today, to speak on the priorities of this government. I find it incredible that the Minister of Justice finds this bill the one that should be brought in before we run out of time in June.
The House will probably break for the summer recess near the end of June. That is our present anticipation. When we look at the number of bills that have to be dealt with and the number of supply days that are left, with only May and June to go, time will go quickly.
I really wish that this government would take an occasion like this to bring forward some substantial bills that the people out there are crying for, that they are demanding and that we need so desperately.
I think, for example, of the misguided justice system in this country. It is not even a justice system any more. I am talking about this specifically because there is a question here about sexual assault. That is one of the things included in Bill S-5.
I am appalled to see conditional sentencing for people who physically and/or sexually attack a fellow citizen. Usually it is a man attacking a woman or an adult sexually assaulting a child. These are horrendous crimes. If I were to choose priorities, would I be talking about these little amendments, as important as they are? Yes, I would. I would spend about 12 seconds on this stuff, pass it and then go on to the important things.
Is it not terrible that in this country a man can actually rape a woman and not serve a single day?