There may not be many of them, but I am sure we can rouse them.
To carry on where I left off, I mentioned yesterday to them that, according to the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans, which tabled a unanimous report, a consensus had to be reached on the fish stocks problem in Canada. The five parties in the House were unanimous in describing the problem as poor federal government management. This is not me speaking, it is what the House standing committee report said, unanimously.
Second, once we agree on the problem, we can start looking for solutions. The Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans, again unanimously, said an independent committee should look at the management methods of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and the methods used to determine acceptable catches, that is, just how much fishers can catch.
Up to this point the recipe is fine. We can see the approach. First, we agree on a definition of the problem and, second, on how to find a solution. An independent committee is not something that works along party lines. But why go that route? This is where it gets interesting.
The standing committee is not the only one to say that the public has lost confidence. So does the advisory committee on fishery resources. I am told that it too raised the matter of the fishers' and the general public's loss of confidence in the management of Fisheries and Oceans.
I have a really big question in mind: Who will administer Bill C-27 and who will sign the United Nations Fisheries Agreement? The same gang that is responsible for depletion of the stocks. That makes no sense whatsoever.
They are being offered an opportunity to get that confidence back. First of all, the public and the fishers must be consulted, and agreement reached with them on acceptable means of management and on total catches, as well as how these will be determined.
I repeat, the same recipe that was used in the past is the one being used for the UNFA, and the same gang is still in charge. They need to put their house in order. Confidence must be restored.
I have another approach to suggest to the minister. The Constitution of Canada says that the federal government is responsible for fish catches. When the minister is questioned closely, he says he is responsible for conservation. But what is he saving, the resource, or his people's jobs? This is where it gets a bit disconcerting.
Everybody is mad at them, even the staunchest federalists are saying that this no longer makes any sense. If the minister really wants to think about conservation, let him do so. But what I want to see, as proof of his desire to do so, is fisheries plans, which are one way of preserving the resource, and agreement with the fishers. When we refer to a fisheries plan, we mean one relating to conservation measures.
Why has the crab fishing plan for zone 12 of the Gulf not been released yet? Have the biologists not given their opinion? Yes, they have. Have the fishers and the departmental staff not reached agreement on the Panel on Ice? Yes. What is left in connection with conservation that needs to be studied? Is it not rather the economic questions that are not settled? If it is economic questions that need to be looked at before releasing the fisheries plan, is this not exceeding the mandate? That is another good question.
If he really wants to solve economic problems, I can mention a few that come under his responsibility, TAGS for instance. It is also part of his jurisdiction to solve the AFS problem and to have an overall vision of fisheries. But this has not been resolved yet.
The standing committee agreed unanimously on its recommendations, including Recommendation No. 10. He was asked to extend TAGS with all those who were participating in it from the beginning until the moratoriums are lifted, or as long as no management decision has been taken regarding the size of the industry and its future direction.
In order to decide what this direction should be, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans and the Minister of Human Resources Development should talk with the provinces. If rationalization is what they are hoping for, how are they going to persuade the provinces to go along with rationalizing their plant workers unless this is tied in with the catch?
Perhaps one approach would be to offer historic quotas. That would be one way of reassuring the provinces about the rationalization plan that they will have to come up with.
Since the minister's constant answer to our questions is that his job is protection, all he has to do is sit tight here in Ottawa and say “My job is to ensure that the number of fish taken is not greater than the number I have authorized”. However, in that case, he should let the provinces, with the quota they are given, share the resource and reach an agreement with workers.
That is what should be done, particularly as there have been some changes since my arrival in Ottawa in 1993. The Minister of Human Resources Development knows very well that, as a result of constructive criticism, there are manpower training agreements with the provinces. Why would the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans not delegate quotas to his provincial counterparts?
The Minister of Human Resources Development could then say to a province “You will decide how many people you need and we will give you money to retrain the rest. But you will do it as you see fit, in terms of what you have to offer”. Everybody knows that Canada is a big country, but the problems in the Gaspé are not necessarily the same as those in St. John's or Halifax.
This is 1998. I understood this a long time ago, and I would like them to understand it as well. So I am making this suggestion. I would like the minister to tell me how he could do otherwise, and to try to answer the question as to how the provinces can agree to rationalize their fishers if the resource is not tied to the number of workers.
If we go a little further to give the minister and Canadians a chance to solve the issue, other management tools must be put in place. Once the provinces have their quotas and their traditional share, they should set up unloading facilities.
Why? This is always of interest to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans. As we know, there are fewer fish than there used to be, at least in the case of cod, redfish and turbot. But there are other species of fish. Why are we not able to find a market for the so-called underused species? It is precisely because they are not numerous enough or because we are not used to them. We should get consumers interested in these other species.
Let me give you the example of a fisher who arrived at the port with 8,000 to 10,000 pounds of turbot, which was its main catch, 6,000 pounds of redfish and, because I put him in contact with other markets, 1,000 pounds of monkfish.
The turbot brought in between $6,000 and $7,000, since fishers try to make a trip that will bring in about $10,000. The 5,000 to 6,000 pounds of redfish at 20 cents per pound were worth $1,000. However, the 1,000 pounds of monkfish, which used to be thrown back into the water because no one knew this species in the Gaspe Peninsula at the time, found a market at $1 per pound.
The fisher realized that his 5,000 to 6,000 pounds of redfish was taking a lot of room on his boat and was not worth more than the 1,000 pounds of monkfish, which he could handle individually when lifting his nets.
If we can concentrate on these 1,000-pound catches of monkfish, skate and other species whose names I do not know or I forget, it will allow us to develop a distribution network that will ensure the survival of our fisheries.
How could a province or region of Canada establish such mechanisms if they do not have the tools? I urge the minister to be very careful to stick to the existing formula. Everyone in the Gaspé, Newfoundland and New Brunswick knows that the resource is migratory, and it does not reach our shores at the same time and in the same quantities. These are things that must be considered.
Who is in a better position to take a decision and direct fishers and markets in the morning, than the person closest to the dock, who is in contact with them, someone in Newfoundland who will say “Okay, boys, in the morning I can give you such and such a contract. Everyone who finds that in their nets should bring it in”.
Fishers are well aware that it will be a matter of luck, but the 20% or 25% of fish in their holds will perhaps give them their profit margin in the end. In the Canadian context, this is difficult to do because people always want wall-to-wall clauses.
I would like there to be discussion with the provinces. If I take the example of Newfoundland—and I am sure that my colleague will say the same thing in a few minutes—when Newfoundland entered Confederation, one of the conditions was that their fishing rights would be protected. In talking with representatives from Newfoundland this week, I was surprised to learn that they are not kept informed by the minister. The people in Ottawa know more about the future of the fishery than the public in their own riding, when those are the people who can see the dock from their window.
Changes are in order. I see my time is running out, but at least I was able to suggest a few solutions that are instructive for the members opposite, that let the public know solutions are possible. We must address this whole problem.
I repeat that the Bloc Quebecois will be voting for Bill C-27, but with reservations. As it now stands, all the bill does is let the minister sidestep the issue. He is merely giving the illusion that he is doing something about the fisheries and that he will try to find an answer to the problem, when he could have gone to Washington to sign the UN fisheries agreement.
He should start by going down to the docks and trying to sort out the fishing plans with fishers. People are waiting. Next week will be the fourth week the crab fishery has sat idle, and the minister is still rooted to the spot. It is time he took action.