House of Commons Hansard #104 of the 36th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was workers.

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Division No. 137Government Orders

12:15 p.m.

Guelph—Wellington Ontario

Liberal

Brenda Chamberlain LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Labour

Mr. Speaker, this group of motions deals with the new requirement for exercising the right to strike or the right to lock out.

Under Bill C-19 the right to strike or lock out will be acquired 21 days after conciliation is completed, subject to the parties meeting new requirements regarding the holding of a secret ballot vote within the previous 60 days and the giving of a 72 hour advance notice of a strike or a lockout.

Motions. Nos. 11 an 12 would delete the reference to the 72 hour notice requirement and the obligation to send a new notice if no strike or lockout occurs at the end of the notice period. The new 72 hour notice provision implements the recommendation of the Sims task force. Its purpose is twofold. It will allow for an orderly shutdown or reduction of operations and resolve the problem of perishable items. It will further focus the parties on serious negotiations and should encourage settlement of disputes.

To those unions which feel that this new requirement will frustrate the right to strike, it is important to point out that Bill C-19 will not require that a new notice be given once a strike or lockout action has commenced, even if it is temporarily suspended. Furthermore, where the other side begins a strike or a lockout action, the 72 hour notice requirement will not apply to the other party.

Some unions, mostly longshore unions, have said that the 72 hour notice requirement will allow an unfair advantage to the shipping companies and agents in the negotiating process as it will remove the prospect of ships being held captive during a port work stoppage. This position is echoed by the Bloc Quebecois.

The major economic impact of a port work stoppage is that the port is closed and the fixed capital remains idle. Surely such a major impact on important investments is a significant pressure point and a reasonable offset for the loss of income employees must incur during a work stoppage.

While the code recognizes a union's right to exercise economic pressure on the employer engaged in a labour dispute, and the strike is one of the economic sanctions that can be used, it is only reasonable that both parties have time to prepare for its use.

We believe that in the small number of cases under the code where the parties do resort to work stoppage action that the 72 hour notice requirement will ensure an orderly shutdown or reduction of operations. Who knows? There may even be a last successful effort at settlement.

The Bloc Quebecois has put forward five motions relating to the strike and lockout vote requirement. These include the removal of the requirement that the strike or lockout vote be held within the previous 60 days, the removal of the entire section 87.3 dealing with strike and lockout votes, the removal of the rules governing the conduct of the vote requirement, the removal of the procedure to contest irregularities, and the removal of the board's authority to summarily dismiss an unjustified challenge of votes and to order that a new vote be held.

It is important to stress that with the exception of the current Canada Labour Code secret ballot strike votes are mandatory in all Canadian jurisdictions including Quebec as a prerequisite for legal strike action.

Although the vast majority of unions subject to the code already hold secret ballot votes before declaring a strike, employees in the bargaining unit who are not union members may be excluded from participating in a major decision which directly affects them.

Strike votes are not always held in a timely fashion. In some cases a strike mandate is acquired early in the bargaining process as a means of demonstrating solid employee support for union demands but may not be a true reflection of support for a work stoppage.

The conditions for a valid vote specified in Bill C-19 reflect the recommendations of the Sims task force. They are similar to provisions found in a number of provincial statutes. They are not onerous.

It is hard to imagine that any democratically held vote would fail to meet these basic requirements. These conditions will simply ensure that such votes are timely, fairly conducted and based on the entire workplace involved in the dispute.

I have difficulty understanding why the Bloc Quebecois objects to a requirement for votes to be held in such a manner as to allow eligible workers a reasonable opportunity to participate in a vote and to be made aware of the results. Surely this is fundamental to the democratic principles which trade unions recognize and practise.

The Bloc Quebecois is also proposing that there be no opportunity for an employee in the bargaining unit to allege irregularities in the conduct of a strike vote. Surely there should be some recourse for employees who allege they have been unfairly denied the opportunity to participate in a strike vote.

Without such a provision the requirements of this section could not be enforced. Concerns have been raised that the 60 day period for holding a strike vote may cause difficulty in some cases, particularly where employees in the bargaining unit are employed across the country or do not work at a specific location. By allowing the 60 day validity period for a strike vote to be extended Bill C-19 addresses these concerns.

The 72 hour notice requirement and the strike and lockout vote provisions in Bill C-19 are fair and democratic. I urge members to support them and to reject the amendments proposed by these motions.

Division No. 137Government Orders

12:20 p.m.

Reform

Dale Johnston Reform Wetaskiwin, AB

Mr. Speaker, in Group No. 5 we see several motions put forth by the Bloc and unfortunately we can support none of them.

The requirement for a 72 hour notice before a work stoppage takes place is a reasonable one. The Bloc wants to delete this provision. We do not agree with that at all.

The 72 hour notice period is one of the few positive features of Bill C-19, at least one of the changes we could support. It would allow innocent third parties that have goods in transit, for instance, an opportunity to seek alternate arrangements. Or, if their goods were actually in transit, they would have an opportunity to carry on their journey prior to having the services withdrawn.

Many times we find perishable goods stranded somewhere and by the time labour and management have resolved their differences the perishable goods have spoiled. That is unfortunate and not fair to innocent third parties that ship these goods. Of course it has a very detrimental affect on Canada's economy overall.

The amendments put forth by my colleagues in the Bloc are not in concert with the idea of seeking a balance between labour and management. The people who use these services must be considered more because when services are withdrawn, whether through a strike or a lockout, it is not just management and labour that are affected. It is all the people who rely on the services in the area where federal industrial relations apply. Oftentimes these are services for which there is not an immediate alternative. In many cases this is the only game in town as far as the services are concerned. The provision for the 72 hour notice before a strike or lockout is a rather reasonable one and should not be amended as my colleague has suggested.

The 60 days as referred to in Motion No. 13 is reasonable and sufficient to negotiate and give the employers and employees time to prepare for possible work disruptions. As the parliamentary secretary alluded to several times in her statement, it allows for an orderly shutdown. It also allows time for people to make alternate plans. We concur with that. We think it is reasonable. We think it is an area that would not be improved by the amendment put forth by our colleague in the Bloc.

Motion No. 14 in particular seems to be a continuation of Motion No. 13. It would seem to deny worker and employee associations an opportunity to participate in a ballot vote. Our party is very much in support of a ballot vote being taken to determine whether there should be work stoppage or a strike. Also a ballot vote should be taken to determine whether or not a union should be certified.

In summing up, we will not be able to support these motions.

Division No. 137Government Orders

12:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

Is the House ready for the question?

Division No. 137Government Orders

12:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Question.

Division No. 137Government Orders

12:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

The question is on Motion No. 11. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Division No. 137Government Orders

12:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Division No. 137Government Orders

12:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Division No. 137Government Orders

12:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

All those in favour will please say yea.

Division No. 137Government Orders

12:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Division No. 137Government Orders

12:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

All those opposed will please say nay.

Division No. 137Government Orders

12:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Division No. 137Government Orders

12:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

In my opinion the nays have it.

And more than five members having risen:

Division No. 137Government Orders

12:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

The recorded division on motion No. 11 stands deferred.

The next question is on Motion No. 13. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Division No. 137Government Orders

12:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Division No. 137Government Orders

12:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Division No. 137Government Orders

12:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

All those in favour will please say yea.

Division No. 137Government Orders

12:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Division No. 137Government Orders

12:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

All those opposed will please say nay.

Division No. 137Government Orders

12:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Division No. 137Government Orders

12:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

In my opinion the nays have it.

And more than five members having risen:

Division No. 137Government Orders

12:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

The recorded division on Motion No. 13 stands deferred.

We will now proceed with putting the motions in Group No. 6 to the House.

Division No. 137Government Orders

12:25 p.m.

Reform

Dale Johnston Reform Wetaskiwin, AB

moved:

Motion No. 18

That Bill C-19, in Clause 37, be amended by replacing line 39 on page 28 with the following:

“of the public or the causing of severe economic hardship to the national economy.”

Motion No. 20

That Bill C-19, in Clause 37, be amended

(a) by replacing line 34 on page 29 with the following:

“danger to the safety or health of the public or cause severe economic hardship to the national economy, the”

(b) by replacing line 42 on page 29 with the following:

“or health of the public or the causing of severe economic hardship to the national economy;”

Division No. 137Government Orders

12:25 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Rocheleau Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

Mr. Speaker, unless I have misunderstood, we have voted on Motions No. 11 and Motion No. 12. What would be needed now is a vote on Motions Nos. 13, 14, 15, 16 and 17, which are part of Group No. 5, and not Motions Nos. 20 and 18.

Division No. 137Government Orders

12:30 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

The question was on these two motions only, because the decision that will apply to the other motions depends on the result of the divisions on the two motions I put before the House.

For example, if one of the two is rejected, there will be a recorded division on the others. Does that give the hon. member his explanation? Fine.

Division No. 137Government Orders

12:30 p.m.

Reform

Dale Johnston Reform Wetaskiwin, AB

moved:

Motion No. 22

That Bill C-19, in Clause 37, be amended by replacing lines 24 and 25 on page 31 with the following:

“let-go and loading of vessels and the move-”

Motion No. 23

That Bill C-19, in Clause 37, be amended, in the English version only, by replacing line 26 on page 31 with the following:

“ment of vessels in and out of a port”

Mr. Speaker, Group No. 6 deals with the continuation of services where there is a situation in which the danger to public health or safety may exist and the minister would be able to step in and intervene.

That seems very reasonable. There are, however, no provisions in the bill that would allow for the continuation of service in order to protect Canada's economy. For instance, in the 1994 west coast work stoppage the estimated cost was in the range of $125 million. That is the direct cost. That is what was estimated it would cost the Canadian farmers by not getting their crops to market. I suppose one could say they would eventually get their crops to market but if an item is not on the shelf, so to speak, it is extremely difficult to sell it. I think this is one occasion where a work stoppage had a devastating effect on the Canadian economy.

We are talking about the direct costs at the moment of roughly $125 million. Indirectly the figures vary but it has been generally stated that the indirect costs could be as high as $250 million and a possibility of threatening $500 million in grain sales in the future.

Why do we say threatened grain sales in the future? If customers come to Canada for a load of grain and they find their ships have to wait in the port for a week or two weeks or three weeks and they have to go down to Seattle or Portland in order to get a load of grain, in the future they are going to say why take chances on going to Canada and not get the supply order they came for, that perhaps they should deal with the United States in the first place.

There should be some protection in the bill to protect the economy and to protect the innocent third parties who rely on these services. Services, as I have stated before, are not readily available. It is not as though we have a multiple choice as far as where we can ship our grain. Canada is not particularly well endowed with ports. The ports we have are certainly well appointed and capable of handling a tremendous amount of traffic but we do not have very many. When we have work stoppages at Canada's major port on the west coast it has an absolutely devastating effect on the economy of the country.

It would be in the interests of all Canadians if we have reliable access to services. Definitely it would help to keep employment within our borders and establish and maintain a reputation as a reliable worldwide supplier and exporter of goods. As I have said, we definitely have a world class transportation system and we should not allow it to fall whim to work stoppages, in particular work stoppages that occur at the highest traffic times of the year. We will hear people say if you are going negotiate, to take some kind of a job action, the best time to take it is when there is lots of activity because you want to put optimum pressure on whomever you are bargaining with to come to terms.

This bill does provide for maintenance of services whenever there is a danger to public health or safety. But I think the national economy is important enough that there should be some provision in here.

Throughout the bill we have seen the Canadian Industrial Relations Board, the replacement for the old Canada labour relations board, given all kinds of powers. Indeed we see where the minister and the governor in council have all kinds of powers they can use as well. We think it is only reasonable that they be given some latitude as to whether these work stoppages will have a devastating effect on Canada's economy and we have to look at the spin-off jobs damaged by the disruption in these services.

Motions Nos. 22 and 23 deal with amendments to the provision that ensures that grain once it reaches port will be shipped out. I would like to make it perfectly clear that the Reform Party is wholeheartedly in favour of farmers' grain being able to be shipped offshore unimpeded from the farm gate right to the high seas.

But this bill does not guarantee that. This bill does not address that. This bill simply says that if the grain reaches the port it will be loaded on to the ships and the ships will be piloted out of the harbour. It addresses the tie-up, loading and let go of grain vessels. We agree that is a good small step. But what does it do for the farmers on the prairies who cannot get their grain to the port because there is some kind of a work stoppage somewhere else in the system, between the farm gate and the port? This bill addresses no portion of that.

We are suggesting there should be some kind of dispute settlement mechanism in place that will allow services to continue in the west coast ports while negotiation takes place. We certainly agree that a negotiated settlement is far better and probably more long lasting than any kind of an imposed settlement. Regardless of what our opponents will try to convince us of, that is our position. We believe that to negotiate a settlement is the best way.

However, there are many other products, coal, sulphur, potash, dehydrated alfalfa, many petrochemical products as well, that depend on a deep water port to get their products to the markets, often to the Asian markets, and by sea is the only logical way to transport these products. The alfalfa dehydrators for instance export about $100 million worth of product a year and their product is perishable as well.

What we are saying is put in a dispute settlement mechanism. If the government decides the Reform Party has given too much profile to final offer selection arbitration and brings it in, it would be accused of caving into the Reform Party. Then let it come up with a dispute settlement mechanism of its own making, of its own naming, but something that would have the effect of the continuation of services at the west coast ports while we encourage those people to come to an agreement.

What has been the alternative over the years? The alternative has been to legislate services back to work at the west coast ports. Once that happens, there will be services reluctantly restored but there are none of the things addressed that brought about the work stoppage in the first place.

This government has used a dispute settlement mechanism over and over in the past in conjunction with back to work legislation. We are suggesting that a dispute settlement mechanism is needed here that would be far more effective than simply picking out one commodity and declaring it an essential service.

We certainly concur with the expedient movement of grain from the farm gate to the high seas. We recognize the provisions in this bill are a small step in that direction.