And the same cow, of course.
This government is doing the same thing to our students. The same student will have to send two applications for a loan or a scholarship: one to the Quebec government and one to the federal government. We are talking here about the same taxpayers, the same parents and the same students.
A few moments ago, I heard my friend, the member for Laurentides, say that 5% of the $2.5 billion will be used to pay employees, to pay for the forms, and so on. That means $1 out of every $20. If the federal government really wants to help our students, why does it not allow former students who are starting to repay their student loans to deduct the interest on their loans from their income?
If it were so generous, if it really had the interests of young Canadians and young Quebeckers at heart, it would accept our suggestion immediately and would gain from this situation that opposes it to the Quebec government. In the early 1960s, under the late Jean Lesage, whom I had the pleasure to work with in the Liberal Party of Quebec, an honest man who worked for the well-being of his community, the well-being of Quebeckers, the Government of Quebec established a loans and grants program in co-operation with the federal government. It is working exceptionally well.
Our students are leaving universities with a bachelor's degree, with an average debt of $11,000, while students outside Quebec, elsewhere in Canada, have an average debt of $19,000 or $20,000.
In Quebec, tuition fees are almost half those outside Quebec. It is not surprising that our English universities are filled with students from Ontario or elsewhere.
Duplication creates unwarranted and unacceptable expenses, and the result is, in Canada, we pay 27 % more taxes of all kinds than in the United States for equal services.
A second point that also hurts and offends students, the future recipients of these scholarships, and they demonstrated this in all the universities and cegeps of Quebec, is the way the federal government is getting ready—