Debates of May 28th, 1998

The Senate

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, all members of this House know that the administration of one house through its board of internal economy or in the case of the other place, the committee of internal economy is strictly of the confidence of the other place.

We know that once members have left the house in question, in that case the other place although it has happened here too, they have been allowed some office space. A case was raised now without mentioning it. Other members of other parties including her own were accorded the same kind of benefits.

[The Speaker]

My colleagues, here is the dilemma that I have. I have a question that is very general about a subject we cannot discuss yet I have an answer being given about a subject we are not supposed to discuss. I think I am going to rule both of you out of order.

Employment Insurance

[Gerry Ritz, Reform, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I will shift gears here for a minute. The finance minister is under increasing fire first from Mike Harris of Ontario and now his Liberal cousins in New Brunswick for allowing the surplus in the EI fund to become a cash cow instead of the insurance program it was intended to be.

Will the minister assure this House today that he will make real cuts to the premiums and return the EI fund to its original purpose?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I would simply point out to the hon. member that last year we cut the premiums by $1.4 billion. That is a real cut. It is real money. In fact since we have taken office the premiums, which were to go to $3.30, have been cut by $4.5 billion a year. In my opinion that is real money.

[Gerry Ritz, Reform, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the real money is in a surplus. It is growing toward $20 billion and looking more like $25 billion next year.

The minister talks about the choices his government has had to make and now he is faced with a tough one. He is being called out by his friends as well as by his opponents. The New Brunswick Liberals can see there is something fishy about the federal books.

Will the minister have to be dragged through the courts by the provinces like Ontario is threatening before he returns the EI surplus to Canadian taxpayers?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I do not think that the choices are tough at all. In fact last year we had the second largest reduction in the EI premiums in the history of the country, tax cuts for 83% of Canadians, $1.5 billion going back into the CHST and the elimination of the deficit.

I do not find that a difficult choice. I find that good government.

Groundfish Industry

[Yvan Bernier, Bloc, Bonaventure—Gaspé—Îles-De-La-Madeleine—Pabok, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

There are rumours circulating in my region that the minister will be announcing his new plan for assisting those involved in the groundfish fisheries on June 8.

Can the minister tell us whether this information is accurate and whether there will soon be some reassurance for people about the future groundfish strategy?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, we are of course aware that the people in the region are undergoing real stress because of the impending end of TAGS in August, a strategy we put in place several years ago.

Our government, several of my government colleagues and myself have worked very hard in recent weeks, and we are currently working with the provinces in order to assist the communities and individuals, through government programs, after the end of TAGS in August.

[Yvan Bernier, Bloc, Bonaventure—Gaspé—Îles-De-La-Madeleine—Pabok, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like confirmation from the minister as to whether he has also consulted the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans to ensure that the assistance will properly target the right clientele.

Moreover, I would like him to tell us whether he has met with his provincial counterparts, because according to the information available to me, he has not yet done so.

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, last November I asked Eugène Harrigan, a senior official in my department, to do the rounds of the communities and meet with people. He met with the provincial administrations and consultations were on a very good level.

The Harrigan report is available to the opposition, and if they take the trouble to read it they will see that we have the best picture of the region that has ever been gathered, to enable us to make the right decisions.

I speak regularly with all ministers of fisheries and oceans across the country who want to talk to me, and am always pleased to do so.

Fisheries

[Keith Martin, Reform, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, British Columbia's frustration over the west coast fisheries disaster has hit a new high. Five years of inaction has resulted in the current situation.

I am asking the Prime Minister, will he today call on President Clinton to personally intervene in this west coast disaster that we have today?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, the subject of the overfishing by Alaskans and their failure to abide by the Pacific salmon treaty is a matter of concern that has been raised by my colleague the Minister of Foreign Affairs with his counterpart, by myself with my American counterpart as well as governors of the states of Washington, Oregon and Alaska, and in addition by the Prime Minister with the President of the United States.

What the hon. member forgets is that the United States is bound by a constitution whereby states have certain rights and the federal government in some areas cannot intervene any more than we in this House can tell a province what to put into their educational curriculum in that particular area. We cannot do that. They cannot interfere in a state jurisdiction.

[Keith Martin, Reform, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this is more than just a concern. Perhaps treating this as just a concern and keeping it on the backbenches is the reason this is such a problem today.

I will ask once again. The Minister of Fisheries and Oceans may be the minister of oceans in the near future. He has the Strangway report. He has the facts. Will he today put the fisheries issue, the west coast disaster on the front burner instead of the back burner?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, no issue has caused more trouble between the United States and Canada in the last few years than this one. We have had it on the front burner in discussions between the United States federal government, the Canadian federal government, the Prime Minister and the President. If the hon. member insists upon forgetting or overlooking that the Americans are bound by a constitution and that that constitution gives certain powers to the states, he will continue to misunderstand the difficulties we face on this file.

Nuclear Tests

[Maud Debien, Bloc, Laval East, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

We have learned that Pakistan has just detonated five nuclear bombs, in response to India's nuclear tests. It also apparently has a long-range missile, equipped with a nuclear warhead.

As India and Pakistan now seem on the path to war, what does Canada plan to propose to its allies to defuse this crisis?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we are attempting through every possible diplomatic channel to persuade them not to embark on war.

As you know, the conflict in Kashmir is a very longstanding one and apparently very difficult to resolve. We are using all possible means to persuade them not to go to war. It is very regrettable that, in their mutual posturing, they have decided to develop nuclear weapons. This is completely regrettable. We said so in Birmingham and we are saying it again in the House today.

[Maud Debien, Bloc, Laval East, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the sanctions against India and the diplomatic efforts with respect to Pakistan have, as we know, failed miserably.

Given this failure and, setting aside the fact that the situation is to be regretted as the Prime Minister says, I would like to know what concrete action Canada plans to take to stop the domino effect we know the Indo-Pakistani crisis may generate?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I think that Canada has set a good example. We were among the first countries to withdraw our support in certain areas, to recall our ambassadors, to take other concrete measures to show these two countries that embarking on this course was not only completely disastrous for them, but that, from an economic standpoint, it will be the general public that pays for the mistakes made by their leaders.

The Senate

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we know that the government seeks advice from odd and peculiar places at times. Bars and taverns sometimes come to mind, Mr. Speaker, and they were not ruled out of order. Now we find that former Senator Allan MacEachen, a holdover from the sixties and the Trudeau era, is being—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order. I am going to ask the member to cut from there and go right to the question to see if it is acceptable.

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

My question is for the Prime Minister. Why does the Prime Minister's Office say that Allan MacEachen is performing a service to all parliamentarians when he is an old Liberal Party hand and has nothing to offer to—

[The Speaker]

It is out of order. The hon. member for Mercier.

Employment Insurance

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

One element of the minister's reform should be brought to light. Employees can be so penalized under the new method of benefit calculation that it is absurd for some of them to take work offering few hours a week.

Will the minister recognize that the reform not only worsened workers' situations, but has made it very difficult for many employers, including SMBs, to find—

[The Speaker]

The Minister of Human Resources Development.