Madam Speaker, it is an interesting debate. It is not only interesting to hear the government's point of view, which I will get to in a few moments, but also to hear the views of the NDP and the Bloc Quebecois.
I remember bills going through the transport committee in the last parliament and any time we said anything that suggested we were in any way infringing on the full, unfettered rights of people of Quebec, even though it was not fact, Bloc members would go ballistic. They do not seem to recognize what is practical and reasonable in this country.
My colleague from Souris—Moose Mountain talked about the idea of territorial bilingualism, of having services wherever they are necessary and practical.
I hope the Bloc will listen to this. In 1994 I invited a member of the Bloc Quebecois to be my guest in my riding, which was then Kootenay—West Revelstoke, to see what that side of the country was like and to meet the people from that side of the country. This was at a time when they were talking about taking us on and disconnecting those people. I also invited him to explain to the constituents of my riding what the Bloc's movement was all about.
I took the opportunity to tour the member of parliament for Portneuf around my riding to show him bilingualism in effect. I took him down to the hospital in Castlegar to show him how everything is bilingual in that hospital. It is English and it is Russian. We have a very large number of Russian Doukhobor people whose heritage we celebrate. It does not create division. It makes our area richer because we work together.
I took him to the city park in Nelson to show him the bilingual signs, which are in English and in Japanese. The second language institutions in Nelson have made quite a business teaching English as a second language, particularly with the Asian connection.
He saw that we do not try to quash people being served in their most appropriate language. We go out of our way to celebrate, not kill the culture and heritage of others who can make us richer.
I listened to the government member speaking to the intention of the amendment relating to parks. Notwithstanding his statements, the intention of the amendment, as it has been put forward by the committee, would apply to fence painters and to garbage collectors. It would apply to everybody. He had better be careful when he says that it will not, because the minister has already said that it will.
There is a clause in the bill that is unacceptable. It is unacceptable to us. It is unacceptable to the government. Now we have two amendments. We have a Reform amendment which would take the offending clause out. We have government amendment which would tinker with it a bit, push it a bit here and push it around there.
I will read for the hon. member the government's motion. Maybe he has not read it clearly enough.
For greater certainty—to ensure that, where services are provided or made available by another person or organization on its behalf, any member of the public in Canada or elsewhere can communicate with and obtain those services from that person or organization in either official language, in any case where those services, if provided by the Agency, would be required under—the Official Languages Act—
The Official Languages Act is already there.
Now we are getting down to that grey area. We have somebody painting the fence. Along comes a person who asks “Which way do I go to get to the park?” Is that communication with the public? It is not part of their job, but the amendment says if they communicate with the public. The fact is that it could be interpreted that way. Maybe the member who is chuckling over there thinks that would not happen. Maybe not, but it could.
We used to chastise insurance companies and other companies for writing contracts, agreements and policies in legalise which nobody could understand. In fact, it gets down to a point where lawyers dealing with a claim start battling over the interpretation. Some enlightened companies started putting out policies and contracts in plain language. A minimal amount is said and it is in the plainest language possible.
There is a clause that the minister instructed not be put in. It was put in anyway. The government recognized it was not good. Realistically, how should it be dealt with? If there is a clause that should not have been put in, should it be tinkered with and massaged so that it might be interpreted better, or should it simply be taken out? The logical answer is to take it out. Otherwise the bill becomes bigger and bigger. At some point there will be an amendment to clarify what the amendment meant. That amendment will impact on some other part of the bill, so another amendment will be brought forward.
Keep it as simple as possible. I know the government hates to do that because it likes everybody to think it is so important. It thinks people could not live without it and live without all the wild and wonderful interpretations in the great complex legislation it deals with. The fact of the matter is, the simpler the government keeps it the more respect it will command because finally it will be putting out something that makes sense.
If there is a clause which the minister says should not be in the bill, the solution is to take it out. We support taking it out. That is not knocking the people of Quebec.
The member from the Bloc Quebecois who harangued Reform for its position on this should recognize that, as it stands now, in a national park in Quebec, if they want someone to put a fence around some part of a path so people do not hurt themselves, they cannot hire a local francophone to do it. They can only hire a fully bilingual person to do it. Maybe it is so when you curse that you are an equal opportunity curser. I do not know. It simply does not make sense that somebody fixing a fence or picking up the garbage in Quebec has to speak English any more than it makes sense for someone doing those same tasks in British Columbia has to speak French.
We are not saying that they cannot speak French. We are not saying that somebody who is a francophone should not be able to bid on the contract. We are simply saying that for these jobs it should not be imperative that they be bilingual. It does not make sense. It is bureaucratic. Think of the costs. Did the government even stop to think of what the costs would be?
My colleague for Souris—Moose Mountain mentioned that if a road has to be built, the local contractor should be able to do it at less expense than importing someone from Winnipeg where there is a large francophone population. Perhaps there is a road builder there where many people speak French. If not, I guess someone would have to be brought in from Quebec. Think of the costs that would be involved if local contractors could not meet the requirements and someone had to be brought in from another area. They would have to move their equipment, their manpower, lodgings and all the rest of it.
If the government wants to do what is sensible, do not tinker with it, remove it. It should not have been in there in the first place. The minister even said that. Simply do what the minister said in the first place. We do not always agree with the ministers, so when we finally come up with something we agree on we would hope that government would not turn around and disagree with the minister by not taking it out.