Debates of May 4th, 1998

Hepatitis C

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

I think it is clear what all Canadians want. They want all victims of hepatitis C from tainted blood to be compensated. Frankly they want the finger pointing in this place and elsewhere to stop.

The Minister of Health himself has said that this is a new development. It is certainly grounds on which he could call the federal and provincial health ministers together. Will he do that? Will he let Ontario put its new position to the entire set of health ministers and himself and see if they can all get their heads together and solve the problem?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I welcome the refreshingly constructive approach reflected in the member's question. Forgive my sense of shock, Mr. Speaker, but I think he is quite right.

There is a new development here. It is a significant development. One of the major partners in confederation has changed its position on an agreement that all governments had reached. Let us look at this new development. Let us find out from more than the wire story what Ontario is saying.

I have already spoken with the chair of the provincial ministers. He has indicated that perhaps a meeting of ministers at this point would be appropriate because in the last analysis, our responsibility is together—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Winnipeg—Transcona.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I would hate to think that all of this is happening just because Ontario changed its mind. It is not a major player, it is a province and if any other province changes its mind, I hope it might have the same effect.

When will the meeting take place? Are the ministers of health going to meet this week? Let us get this thing over with. Let us do the right thing. There is a new development. Get the ministers of health together. Let us get a solution which meets the values of all Canadians, which is that these people should be looked after.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, as I have indicated to the member and to the House, we are going to find out from Ontario, from more than a wire story, what it is that Ontario is saying. I will be speaking with Clay Serby who is the minister from Saskatchewan, this year's chair for the provincial ministers. If appropriate, then the ministers will meet.

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Health has been saying that just as soon as he gets a copy of the resolution then he will take a look at it and the government will. I would like to table that resolution right now. I will do so at the end of my question so that he can deal with it.

The primary responsibility for the control of blood safety rests with the federal government. It is clear that there are provinces that believe it is wrong to cut off 40,000 people who are suffering from hepatitis C.

When will this government and the Minister of Health show the same leadership as Ontario and compensate all hepatitis C victims?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, let me repeat for the member because she should know that if it was not for the leadership of the Prime Minister's government, then victims of hepatitis C would not be compensated at all.

When we did meet, ministers in good faith did their best to come to an agreement on a difficult decision. We all agreed on a position. Ontario has now apparently changed its position. That is an important development. As I have said to the House and I say to the member, we will now take a look at what it is Ontario—

[The Speaker]

The hon. leader of the Conservative Party.

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, we have one province that has put its money where its mouth is, as asked by the Prime Minister of Canada. That province is willing to help those who are sick through no fault of their own.

Now we also have a former senior official from the Department of Health, Dr. Brill-Edwards, who has stated “If the federal government had been doing its job safeguarding the blood supply, then the huge numbers of people suffering and dying simply would not be there”.

Why will the government not take the stand today, do its job and compensate all hep C victims?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I think the member should remember that the Krever report, which went into all of this history in great deal and examined what problems resulted in the tragedy, made it clear that while the federal government regularly played a part, the provinces as proprietors and the Red Cross as operator of the system were also at fault. I reassure the member we will look at what Ontario is proposing. If it is a significant development then we shall respond appropriately.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the government has known for several hours about this change in Ontario's position. It must have something more constructive to say than what it has said.

Mr. Harris has said “Ontario will do the right thing and we call upon the federal government to join us”. The answer we want is to this question. Will someone on behalf of the government stand and say “We will do the right thing and join the provinces in renegotiating this agreement?”

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I was informed of this development shortly before question period. I am not aware of people on this side of the House being aware of it for several hours.

However, I want to assure my hon. friend and all Canadians it has always been and it will continue to be our intention to do the right thing.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

So far we have not seen any doing the right thing on this file, Mr. Speaker.

When this renegotiation occurs the current health minister's credibility will be shot. He will be incapable of renegotiating a new agreement. The current health minister has misrepresented the position of the provinces from the very beginning in the House. He has bad mouthed them and he tries to take credit for giving leadership when the leadership is coming in this case from the provinces.

When will we have a new health minister who would be capable of renegotiating in good faith with the provinces?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition should know that we discovered at one o'clock this afternoon what Ontario was proposing. Ontario is the province that has changed its position three times in the last seven days. We apparently have a new position from Ontario, but I for one would rather find out directly from Ontario and when we do find out we will react appropriately.

Calgary Declaration

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs. Seven months after the Calgary declaration, a Léger & Léger-COMQUEST survey reveals that no one, or virtually no one, knows what is in the declaration, and that those who do have an idea of its content say it will not lead anywhere.

The minister was concerned about the lack of consultations in Quebec compared to elsewhere, so what is his answer today, now that we know that 90% of the people of Canada are unable to say what the Calgary declaration contains?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I cannot comment on a survey when we have only seen part of it. Only a few excerpts were published in the press and we can see from the wording of the questions that people were not really asked what the exact content of the Calgary declaration was.

On the other hand, according to a poll whose results were recently released in B.C. this past January, 54% of the people surveyed in British Columbia were familiar with the Calgary agreement, 62% supported the unique character of Quebec society, 69% supported the role of the National Assembly, 80% supported the Calgary agreement, and 66% would have no objection to inclusion of this agreement in the Constitution.

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister is confusing wishful thinking with reality. At the time of Meech and of Charlottetown, the minister was an attentive observer of the Canadian political scene. He noted that each of these initiatives led to total failure.

Now that he has become a front line player in the creation and follow-up of Calgary, is he not just reshooting the same old film, with the same old actors, and the same old predictable ending, in other words the Calgary declaration, which is not enough for Quebec and far too much for Canada?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, the Calgary agreement is not a constitutional text. Moreover, there is something interesting here in connection with what went on at Charlottetown. At Charlottetown, a post-referendum survey indicated that the majority of Canadians were unable to name a single clause from the Charlottetown agreement. On the other hand, when they were shown it clause by clause, Canadians, Quebeckers included, were somewhat against it.

The difference with the Calgary agreement is that when people are surveyed about whether they are in agreement with each of its clauses, there is very strong support in Canada, Quebec included.

Hepatitis C

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, when we are talking about changing positions I want to remind the health minister about something he said not very long ago. He said the file was closed. I distinctly remember him saying that. In fact when his backbenchers came to him and asked him about this he told them that the file was closed.

Who has changed positions here? Is the truth not that the real reason the government is changing its position is that it is losing the PR battle?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the ministers of health of 12 governments came together in good faith. On a tough issue they agreed on a common position. That has now changed.

As I have said to the hon. member's colleagues, we are to examine the new position of Ontario. We want to know the response of the other provinces, for example. We will respond appropriately when that information is known.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the file was closed and now the file is open. We understand the government is finally starting to feel a little heat from the public.

When will the health minister acknowledge the real reason they are pushing the file back on to the table and opening the file up again is that they are losing the PR battle? They know their backbenchers want this deal. They know the public wants it. When will they admit they made a mistake and that is why they are opening this file?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I have told the member and his colleagues that in view of the new development we are to find out what the position of Ontario is and to respond appropriately.

Calgary Declaration

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs says that the unique character referred to in the Calgary declaration is the same thing as the distinct society of the Meech Lake accord. Yet the premiers are playing down this so-called unique character, saying that it does not confer any special status on Quebec.

Would the minister who calls himself the master of clarification explain this major contradiction to us?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, in fact, it is not a special status, but an undertaking by all Canadians to have a federation that respects the principles of equality, it being understood that equality is not synonymous with uniformity, but must go hand in hand with deep respect for the country's diversity, including the unique character of Quebec society.

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister said he went into politics to sell English Canada on the idea of distinct society. When he sees how strongly opposed Canadians are to entrenching special status for Quebec in the Constitution, does he realize that, even though he has tried to sell Quebec short, his plan is destined to fail abysmally?