Debates of May 6th, 1998

Hepatitis C

[The Speaker]

I would ask my colleagues to always address questions and answers to the Speaker.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, is it not interesting when you are cornered like a rat you come out fighting.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

I would ask colleagues on both sides to be very judicious in their choice of words.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the saddest thing about all this is that they seem to have forgotten what this is all about. This is all about—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Colleagues, we all want to listen to the question.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

All we ask is that they remember what this is all about, and it is all about the victims. For the sake of the victims pre-1986, will the Prime Minister say if he is willing to go there to negotiate on behalf of those victims, or is he to go there and say “absolutely no way?”

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Leader of the Opposition was talking about negligence and responsibility. Now the words do not exist any more.

No wonder I was able to say yesterday that 10% believes that the Reform Party is doing that because it has compassion and 75% thinks it is doing that because of politics. He is a member of a party that is promising to cut welfare and social assistance programs by $3.5 billion, promising to slash pensions by $3 billion—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Just as we want to hear the question, my colleagues, I am sure we want to hear the answer. The Prime Minister still has a few seconds. If he wants to use them he may.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

I do not have much to add. All those people for years have been advocating to make the rich richer and the poor poorer, and now they are acting like a bunch of hypocrites.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Colleagues, I would ask you to stay away from words that incite either one side or the other.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the premier of Quebec has just announced that his government has decided to increase its financial contribution to the compensation of the victims of hepatitis C.

My question is for the Prime Minister. With position taken by Ontario first, and now Quebec, will the Prime Minister acknowledge that, for humanitarian reasons, he has an obligation to increase his contribution in order to resolve the hepatitis C problem?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the premier of Quebec changed his mind again. Maybe the ministers should meet and pool their ideas. The conference is in eight days. They can change their minds eight times between now and then.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the Prime Minister of Canada realize how incredible it is for him to be mocking those growing in compassion?

With his heavy responsibility and the responsibility of those opposite, who are laughing at the moment, will the Prime Minister agree to do as his colleagues and half the members of this House have done and show some compassion toward the victims of hepatitis C?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Quebec premier has changed parties five times since his arrival in politics. He changes a lot.

These governments, a few months ago, would have nothing to do with this matter. They were forced to look at it by the federal Minister of Health.

The Quebec health minister and the others made statements last Friday and now they are changing their minds. We will make sure that all ministers meet and that each of them has paper and a pen so they can put their ideas on the table clearly.

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the premier of Quebec has just announced that he plans to compensate hepatitis C victims using a mechanism that would allow provinces to spread out payments in order to accommodate provincial budgets.

Should the provinces make a formal proposal along these lines, is the federal government prepared to go along with such an arrangement, given the leeway available to it?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I must respond. The PQ government wants to make sure that Jean Charest's Liberal government gets stuck with the bill.

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, such a response is unbelievable.

The premiers of Quebec and Ontario are aware of their responsibilities and are looking for a way to compensate hepatitis C victims.

Is the Prime Minister of Canada prepared to show the same compassion and open-mindedness towards victims as his counterparts, yes or no?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have been very open-minded, because it was the federal government and the federal Minister of Health who forced the provinces to contemplate compensation at this time.

Obviously, two premiers are in political hot water right now and they want to propose that future governments, and not their own, foot the bill.

Banking

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance. Small businesses in Canada have reason to fear bank megamergers.

According to Canadian Bankers Association data, bank lending to small business decreased from 1995 to 1997. Small businesses in Atlantic Canada and Quebec were particularly poorly served.

The CFIB reports that many small businesses have been “so badly burned by their financial institutions that they would in future operate without bank financing”. If six big banks do not now support small businesses how could the minister seriously believe that two megabanks will?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the numbers that the leader of the NDP has brought forth apparently having just discovered them are ones that have been available to this House for quite some time. In fact it was the industry committee under the chairmanship of the Liberal Party and it was the Liberal task force on the mergers that have for some time not only debated these issues but brought them out.

The hon. member is absolutely right in citing these numbers. I just wish that she had understood that these numbers are about two years old.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, a little less bombast and a little more beef would be appreciated.

Unlike Canada the U.S. is currently holding congressional hearings on proposed bank mergers. In testimony last week before the committee Ralph Nader cited a federal reserve board study which concluded that large banking companies made very few commercial and industrial loans to small business borrowers. These loans are just too small for the mega institutions.

Is the minister afraid to hear from Canadians now because he does not want this kind of evidence to jeopardize his plans to approve the bank mergers in the end?