Debates of May 7th, 1998

Hepatitis C

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the premiers have agreed that there should be a conference next week. Even last night on TV, Premier Harris changed his mind again and said that he would send his minister. I am happy with that.

All the ministers will sit down and look at the file. It will not be a policy made on the spur of the moment. It will be a rational approach to the problem. We know there was a commission that made the report. In fact the commission recommended that the compensation should be paid by the provincial governments but we took the initiative to resolve it and now—

[The Speaker]

The hon. Leader of the Opposition.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Prime Minister's spin doctors sent him to a charity function at McDonald's to try to paint him as more compassionate. At McDonald's the Prime Minister flip-flopped. The Prime Minister said that he might give compensation to some of the victims and then again he might not.

How can the Prime Minister go into a serious negotiation on this issue without having a firm position in advance?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I was with George Cohon yesterday who is doing a great job using his business facilities to help young kids in Canada. I will not apologize for that.

We had a very rational discussion before with the provinces. We made a deal according to all the information that all the ministers had. Last Friday afternoon all the ministers talked and they came to an agreement. An hour after that, a premier pulled the rug out from under his minister of health. It is not a case—

[The Speaker]

The hon. Leader of the Opposition.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister is suffering from the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde syndrome. One day he dangles out hope for the victims; the next day he says that maybe he will not compensate them. This is cruel treatment of the victims. If he is going to compensate these victims, why does he not say so? If he is not going to compensate them, why does he not come out and say so?

Is the Prime Minister going to compensate these victims or not?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, this is the same person who was asking me a few days ago if we were to compensate when there was fault by the government. Now he has changed his tune again; talk about changing his mind.

He is trying to create the impression with Canadians that he is compassionate, but he is the one who wants to cut $800 million from aboriginal people. He is the one who wants to cut $3 billion from equalization payments. I can read and read and read to prove that he is just playing politics.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the interesting thing for me is that the victims watch these proceedings. They watch these antics. They are not interested in politics. They are not interested in pettiness. They are not interested in name calling.

What they want to know, and I get to be their voice, is what is the position of the Prime Minister as they go to this meeting. Is he ready to compensate the victims of hepatitis C from tainted blood? Yes or no. Will he or will he not?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the member should be very careful before styling himself as the voice of victims.

There are 22,000 victims who were infected during a period when something should have been done and have the government and the Prime Minister to thank for the fact that they are to be compensated.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the victims over and over again say that they are not answering this simple question. I do not know how many times we have to ask it.

Surely when you go to a negotiation you go there with a position. All we are asking is what is the position of the government as it goes to this important meeting on hepatitis C.

Is it going there sulking with its heels dug in, or is it going there in an open spirit of co-operation? For the victims' sake, will the government compensate pre-1986 victims? Yes or no.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, we have already said the developments of this week are significant. We have already said we will make ourselves available for a meeting. In fact the date and location of that meeting are almost finalized. We are going there to speak with provinces whose positions have changed and may change between now and then.

I think the hon. member should realize that the way we run the country is by consensus. We are listening to what is being said. We will also approach that meeting trying to find a new consensus. As the Prime Minister says, you do not make public policy in scrums or on the fly; you do it by sitting with the parties.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, under pressure from this House, the public in general and victims of the disease, the position of the premiers has moved in the right direction in the past week.

Ontario and Quebec have announced their intention to compensate hepatitis C victims not covered by the first settlement. Other premiers are considering the issue. But the Prime Minister of Canada, the principal player, is not budging.

Why is the Prime Minister putting off assuming his responsibilities and adopting a more humane attitude?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, a few months ago, we were almost the only ones willing to compensate the victims, since most of the provincial governments and ministers of health were refusing to do anything.

We showed we wanted to do something because we had a responsibility and we were facing a class action before the courts.

Now they are expanding the debate to include compensation for everyone. That is fine, but they have to pay. The Quebec premier wants compensation paid in two or three years by the federal government. Generosity means putting your money up front.

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Roberval.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I must remind the Prime Minister that his statement that he was the first willing to provide compensation is incorrect. Yesterday, I read out a resolution approved by the National Assembly on December 2. I ask him not to repeat such nonsense.

Why is the Prime Minister keeping his mind closed and refusing to try to find a solution for these victims, as his colleagues are doing? What is making him so stubborn?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I think the Minister of Health answered the question very well yesterday, when he said he had clearly established that the Quebec minister of health, who defended the agreement vigorously, had initially been one those who did not want to do anything.

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in the Prime Minister's estimation, Premier Harris is a petty politician and a turncoat, while Premier Bouchard is a man who keeps changing his tune and is in political hot water.

How can the Prime Minister heap scorn and ridicule upon those who are showing some compassion and looking for solutions and label them turncoats?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, as we have already said, we are always glad to meet with the provincial health ministers. In fact, preparations for such a meeting are under way and I will be in attendance.

Last summer, premiers Harris and Bouchard refused to compensate victims. They downright refused. Only the federal government, under the leadership of the Prime Minister, started up the process. The victims will be getting compensation because of this government.

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, there are two essential conditions for finding a solution for the hepatitis C victims. First of all, the Prime Minister must accept the principle of a humanitarian settlement. Then, he must accept the principle of financial involvement by his government, since it can afford to do so.

Does the Prime Minister acknowledge that he must agree to fulfill these two conditions so that the hepatitis C matter can be settled properly for once and for all?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has just made reference to a humanitarian settlement.

I can tell the hon. member that I myself suggested the federal government be the only one to make a financial payment, while the provinces, Quebec included, would provide all medical services to the people including pharmacare. All of them refused, Quebec included. That was Quebec's position. It was not a humanitarian one.

International Trade

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

Many Canadians are concerned about the possible export of Canadian water. We are very concerned to hear that the Minister for International Trade had said that water is tomorrow's oil.

Given that we export a lot of oil and that under NAFTA we could not ban the export of oil, would the Minister of Foreign Affairs kindly dissociate himself from the remarks of his colleague, the trade minister?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, we said in the House yesterday very clearly that we consider the stewardship of our water resources a high priority.

We already took action yesterday in concert with the province of Ontario to refer the matter to the International Joint Commission that works under the boundary waters treaty over which we share jurisdiction with the United States.

We are taking the appropriate action to make sure that we have a system in place and to make sure that the security of our water resources is well protected.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is not inappropriate to refer it to the International Joint Commission, but it does not have the authority to ban export of Canadian water and it does not provide a legislative framework for Canadian policy in this regard.

Will the minister commit to bringing forward a legislative framework to regulate the export of Canadian water and hopefully ban it, and will he dissociate himself from the view, whoever holds it, that water is tomorrow's oil? Oil is a commodity to be sold and bought in the marketplace and that is not what Canadians want done with their water.

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the government has already taken steps to look at the broad question of the place of water within our society. The Ministry of the Environment has commissioned a major study on water resources including the question of exports.

The key to it is that we are undertaking major consultation with the provinces which have the right to give permits on water. We will arrive at a Canadian decision in the best interest of Canadians.

Royal Canadian Mint

[Jim Jones, Progressive Conservative, Markham, ON]

Mr. Speaker, since 1993 the Liberals have had a policy that government should not compete with private industry where business is better able to provide the service.

Yet today the government has introduced a bill that will put the Royal Canadian Mint into direct competition with Westaim, a successful Canadian company, and jeopardize the future of 120 workers.

My question is for the minister of public works. Is it now the policy of your Liberal government to use federal borrowing power to destroy successful Canadian companies?