Mr. Speaker, I did not expect to rise in debate today because my House leader gave a fairly good summary of our stand on this particular issue. However, because I have been involved since I first came here in 1993 with access to information and the integrity of government I decided to say a few words. I was what was called for a while the ethics critic for our party. I was involved in the joint House of Commons-Senate committee, as you were, Mr. Speaker, in looking at a code of conduct for MPs and senators.
I have just had so much to think about on this topic that I thought I would take the time to share it. Normally I may not have, but because of the great motion that was passed by all the Liberals over there I have another nine hours to work today because we are going to be sitting until 4 o'clock in the morning. So I thought that I might as well make some good use of that time by sharing some of my ideas.
I would first like to talk a bit about the process because I think this is where the greatest flaw is in the appointment of a new information commissioner and, I suppose, generally in these positions. A phrase that I have heard is very appropriate here: “We need to cast the net widely in order to get the best possible candidates”.
It is the same as with the contract just recently given to Bombardier. There was no tender. We have the government ministers telling us that it was a great deal for Canadian taxpayers, but we do not know if it is the best deal because others did not have an opportunity to bid on it. Even though there may be some validity to the argument given, it still has its limitations because it was very exclusive.
I feel the same way about the appointment of the access to information commissioner. There was a name put forward and after a very short time that name was withdrawn because on a little bit of scrutiny there were certain tests that were not followed.
This was the process that was followed. A person's name was put forward and I think the government thought that maybe it would just be able to slide this through and move a motion or maybe a report that would be concurred in and, bingo, it would be done. However, it happened that there were certain facts drawn out and in a swirl of controversy the name was withdrawn.
Another name was then put forward, admittedly by a completely different process. That particular individual seems to have the approval of all of the parties. I know our House leader for the Reform Party gave Mr. Reid a good mark in his interview.
Through my experience in personnel management and being involved in interviewing and hiring people over the years, I found that even occasionally when we did in depth interviews with a number of candidates, checked references, looked at work experience and everything like that, in the end we may not have made the best decision. Most of the time we did, but sometimes we could have done better. I think that principle applies here as well. We should have cast the net wider and interviewed two, three or four people and then chosen from among them the one best suited.
I think that is all I will say about the process. Now I want to put out a personal challenge to Mr. Reid because it appears that in a very short time there will be a vote taken in the House and he will get the approval of the House and be appointed by the House as an officer of parliament.
I want to challenge him personally in this way. This might be a strange venue in which to do this since he is not here right now, but I am sure he will read this. It will impinge directly on his function and his work. Perhaps we will make sure that he gets a copy of Hansard .
First, the big challenge is to be fair. I understand that he is going to try to do that. However, there is going to be a great deal of pressure on him because he deals with situations in which there is conflict. The information commissioner is not involved if one of us in the opposition, or a backbench MP, or someone from the media puts in an access to information request. If that request is met forthwith in a timely manner, then the information commissioner is not involved because the process worked. Most of the time he will be involved when there is a conflict, when a member of the press, one of the aforementioned people, or a citizen who wants to know something about what is happening in a certain department of government puts in a request and for some reason that person is given the runaround. Perhaps delay tactics will be used. Perhaps there will be an excessive amount of white-out. Perhaps there will be letters saying that the information was not available or that it was not kept. That is when that commissioner becomes involved. He now needs to arbitrate. His job will be, in a way, to act as an ombudsman for the truth because that is what we are after. That is what Canadians have a right to know. That is what government, that is what business, that is what personal ethics are all about. They are about dealing in the truth.
I want to give him a personal challenge on behalf of our party, and hopefully on behalf of all parties in parliament, to be excruciatingly fair so that when he does come to those situations he will evaluate them based on the principles and laws involved. Is the person entitled to this information? If so, he will clearly and quickly order that it be granted. If it is not available, his explanations will be clear and defensible so that there is a build up of trust in that office and an increasing credibility among Canadians on how government works.
I have another challenge for the new commissioner, soon to be appointed by this House, and that is to avoid even the slightest appearance of favouritism toward the Liberal Party. I say that because he is a well known Liberal. He was a Liberal member of parliament. He was a Liberal cabinet minister. He has the Liberal label. For the next two or three years, unless the Liberals all walk out of the House and there is a change of government, we will have a Liberal government. Simply because he has that label he needs to be extra careful. I predict, almost with certainty, that in the next few years there will be charges that he is protecting his Liberal pals.
I see the Liberal member opposite shaking his head and I have a tendency to agree with him. I have a tendency to think that this is a man who will be fair. I am ready to give him the maximum benefit of the doubt. I am going to give him a fair chance. But he needs to be very careful because he has that label.
He assured us that he has no close companionships within the Liberal Party and that he will be fair. He told us that in the interview. I attended the interview that was held by the committee. It was refreshing to hear of his readiness to state that he would be fair.
I want to both warn him of the possible coming accusations and tell him that he needs to be doubly sure that he does not favour the Liberal government because, as the ethics commissioner is sometimes accused, he will simply be called part of the damage control team.
I have a few specific examples in which we were involved with access to information where information was not given which should have been given. We were not able to get it. We went through all the channels. I am not going to bring it up again because I dealt with it at length in the previous parliament. Suffice it to say that we asked for information and what we got were blank pieces of paper with a stamp on them. I do not remember the number now, but it was the number of a section of the act under which this information was withheld.
The information was withheld because it was personal. It should not have been on that document because the personal attachment to the individual involved should not have entered the government documents.
There was a conflict. We argued, I believe correctly, that having put that information into a public document it should have been available to us, notwithstanding that it was personal in nature. Our argument was that it should not have been there.
How will we get answers to that type of thing? I argued at the time and I will argue again that when there is such a conflict the way to answer it is to bare the truth. I remember being interviewed by the media on this subject. I said that the only thing that would clear up the controversy, which was not done, would be to simply lay it all out on the table and say “Here are the facts. Here is everything. What else do you want to know?” That is how we should deal with our government and departmental offices.
There has to be an accessibility to information that is clear, that does not attempt to befuddle the person who wants to get the information, that does not attempt to withhold the information and that does not attempt to deceive or to throw off track the road to the truth.
I have done two things in my little talk. I guess my role as a teacher and an instructor for many years is coming out. First you say what you are going to say and then you review it. I have done two things. I have talked about the process. I sincerely hope the government hears that message and, for functions like this, makes sure that the process is one of openness. It should be one where anybody can apply. A short list should be developed and then they can nail it down to the best candidate, the person best qualified for the job.
The second thing I talked about was the personal challenge to truth and openness.
I would like to see the information commissioner, the auditor general, the ethics counsellor and all such positions gain and earn an integrity in their own right where they are truly seen to be independent from the front bench of the government, particularly the Prime Minister, so that the people of this country can have the highest level of trust in their government. That is what the Liberals promised in the last two elections. It is slow in being delivered. We would like it to happen more quickly.