Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak on this legislation. I will talk a bit about the reforms in this legislation but unfortunately much more about what was not included in this legislation, in particular the position of ombudsman and independent inspector general. I will make some general comments about the men and women who serve in our forces.
What is in the legislation has been talked about to some extent but what we have in the legislation are some changes to the office of the judge advocate general. There are some positive changes in that but by and large the positive changes laid out in this area are nullified because the judge advocate general is left within the chain of command. There is not enough independence.
Some of the improvements that have been made have lost their value because the independence is limited. The military police is another area where there was reform in this legislation. There are some positive changes but again these positive changes are largely overridden because this office really is not made independent enough. That is still a concern regarding that position and really limits to a great extent the value that could have been presented in this legislation had it been done properly.
That is what is in this legislation. What is not in the legislation? The position of ombudsman is not mentioned in the legislation. The position of independent inspector general has been completely left out. There is no mentioned whatsoever and seems to be rejected by this legislation, and certainly was rejected by the minister's announcement of the ombudsman yesterday.
The parliamentary secretary in his opening comments said there is no need for an independent inspector general and his quote is that all the bases are covered by what is presented in this legislation and by the position of ombudsman. The ombudsman was announced yesterday. I am going to point out as clearly as I can that all the bases are not covered.
Because independence is not given to any of those involved in this military justice system the reality is if any gains have been made they are very small.
Let us look at the position of ombudsman. There is no mention of it in this legislation. The interesting thing is that in spite of the fact that the ombudsman was announced by the minister yesterday, there is no legislation to establish a position of ombudsman. What does that mean? We have an ombudsman appointed. There is no legislation. To me that means absolutely no power. That was something made very clear in the press conference yesterday. The ombudsman who was appointed has no power.
The only real power this ombudsman has is in presenting information to the public about what is going on inside the department. That is very limited because the ombudsman does not really present the information that he might have on a situation that is not being dealt with properly to the public. The ombudsman rather presents the information to the minister. It will be up to the minister to decide whether anything is done with the information presented to him. What really has been accomplished with that? I would like the parliamentary secretary to explain how all the bases have been covered.
I want to read some of the things that have been said by the minister and General Kinsman, former ADM of personnel. They were talking about the position of ombudsman and what it would and would not do. It is important to note here that this is an organizational ombudsman, not the ombudsman that people are used to when they hear about an ombudsman who is set out to deal with a particular problem by a provincial government or some other organization.
General Kinsman said: “Typical functions of an organizational ombudsman would include listening to members' complaints and providing an opportunity for ventilation; providing information to members on policies, how to take action, where to find information and so on; reframing issues and developing options for members; referring people to help themselves with advice or coaching; making informal, third party interventions”. As he goes down the line he makes it clear that this position does carry with it absolutely no power. That was reinforced yesterday with the minister's announcement.
General Kinsman goes on to say: “Because of objections in the operational commands to the proposal as tabled a compromise option was developed which would limit members' direct access to the ombudsman office, to administrative actions only, but would authorize secondary access on all other matters after first attempting resolution within the chain of command”.
People who have a complaint that is not being dealt with still have to go through the chain of command and only then can it be dealt with in some way by the ombudsman. The ombudsman, having no power because there has been no legislation introduced to give that power, has a very limited capability. The minister in yesterday's press conference really reinforced that.
I would like the parliamentary secretary and the minister to show how all the bases have been covered. It is clear that very little progress has been made.
The most disturbing thing of all was said by the parliamentary secretary today and the minister yesterday at the press conference. They said that because this ombudsman has been appointed there is no need for an independent inspector general. We had proposals again and again by the Somalia commission and by several other people who have done reviews of the military system that call for the appointment of an independent inspector general who would report to parliament completely outside the chain of command. That is what people have called for. That is what is needed and it is completely absent from this legislation. It is a glaring hole.
All bases covered, I suggest the government does not get to first base with this legislation. I am extremely concerned about that because of the impact on our men and women who serve so well in the Canadian forces and their need now for someone to go to when their concerns are not dealt with properly.
I want to make it clear that when I am talking about the position of ombudsman and the lack of authority and legislation to even establish the position, I am not criticizing the gentleman who was appointed, André Marin. He seems like a bright young man and has great qualifications when one looks at what he has done. He has been successful at what he has done. In terms of the person appointed I do not have a concern.
However, I think Mr. Marin is headed for frustration. He goes into this position for six months and he is then going to realize he has been given an impossible task. There are high expectations of what he would do but there is no authority granted to allow him to do it.
I will close by commenting on the impact of this legislation which is very weak, on the ombudsman position which is very weak, and on the impact of that on the men and women who serve so well in our forces.
As the House of Commons defence committee found out, it is clear that there are very good people serving in the Canadian forces. They are dedicated. They are certainly not there for the money. They are there because they want to serve this country. They are proud of what they do, but they do need someone to help them when they have a problem that is not dealt with by the chain of command. They need someone.
Presenting legislation like this and saying that all bases are covered is completely letting down the men and women who serve this country so well. It is sad that has happened. Something else has to happen to make up for the wrong that is being done in presenting this legislation and nothing more.