Mr. Speaker, thank you for those word of wisdom in guiding the House along a proper path of decorum and wise speech.
It is a pleasure today to speak to Bill C-37. When I rose to speak to the bill on March 30 I suggested several areas of the bill that should be considered for amendment to ensure its stated intent could be achieved. I rise today to emphasize to members of the House the need for such changes.
Many of Canada's judges may well deserve a reasonable raise of certainly no more than 2% which is what lower paid employees are getting in the public service. By way of general comment, 2% on $20,000 is much less than 2% on $140,000. The lowest and the most needy in society are getting a much lower dollar to take home and buy the basic necessities of life than the higher paid in society.
Low salaries are typical of the justice sector in general, especially in the area of law enforcement. I understand a new mechanism for determining salaries of Canada's judges is needed. As one of my hon. colleague's pointed out earlier, the bill will increase the salaries of judges by 8.3% over two years. Most Canadians would agree this is an unreasonable proposition, especially when we consider judges' salaries in comparison to those of other members of the law enforcement community.
The lowest paid in this public sector still suffer financial hardship due to the broken promise of the government for a resolution, for example, of the pay equity issue. Here again we are dealing with people making in the neighbourhood of $20,000 to $28,000 a year.
I also speak specifically about Canada's national police force, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. Along with that group, I suppose, one could include crown attorneys, clerks and paralegals.
RCMP officers put their lives on the line pretty well every day, but have only received their first small raise since approximately 1991. Police officers make headlines by saving lives.
The House knows how Canada's judges have taken over parliament's role in changing, through interpretation, legislation. The current issue that is of great concern is the change in the definition of spouse. The Rosenberg case, which was referred to previously, has taken it out of the hands of parliament, which should rightfully deal with an issue as major as determining the definition of the word spouse. I would like to think that at some point, possibly in the fall, we will be back debating that particular issue on behalf of Canadians to come up with a resolution out of this House as opposed to the courts doing it.
I would like hon. members of the House to consider how a rank and file RCMP officer will feel when this bill is passed. Officers work every day in dangerous circumstances. Many of our judges seem to be out of touch with the current standards of the average citizen in our community.
I recently brought a petition to the House in reference to the Giles case in Manitoba. One of the primary statements that I made in regard to that petition was that judges have to reflect the standards, the morals and the current beliefs of a society. Otherwise, what are they doing on the bench?
This brings me to another point with regard to Bill C-37. It seeks to establish an independent mechanism for salary determination in order to maintain the independence of the judiciary. There are two problems with this. I agree in part with the intention of this because we certainly want judges to be independent. However, they also have to be accountable and, as I said, reflect the society they are judging.
Canada's judges should certainly not fear salary cuts if they render decisions against the government. However, the commission to be established under this legislation cannot hope to provide that independence. I believe that the appointment process of one representative by the judges, one by the government and one by both to make up the tribunal does not lend itself to that independence.
The government must move to prevent patronage appointments in the case of government appointments, which are undoubtedly going to occur under this legislation. While it may be agreed that the judiciary should be independent of the government, this should not mean that judges are unaccountable.
I know that hon. members opposite can mention the systems in place for judicial review. I realize that many feel that appeal courts provide all of the accountability necessary in our judicial system because they provide a mechanism whereby bad decisions can sometimes be reversed.
However, this does little to address the deeper problem, which is judges who make decisions that are offensive to their community standards. In that case there is no mechanism for any accountability back to these members of our society. It is here that the question of judicial accountability becomes tricky. Judges should, as we have already agreed, be independent of parliament, which might otherwise manipulate their decisions for political purposes.
The judges should not be totally independent of the communities and the people they serve. Judges who render decisions in keeping with Canada's laws and who use the flexibility provided them under these laws to render sentences in keeping with the expectations of their communities should be recognized for doing so.
Local communities should have greater opportunity to give direct feedback to judges' associations outside of the courtroom. If we cannot move to a system whereby judges are elected by the people for fixed terms of office, we can at least give communities a voice in the process.
This legislation should be amended to allow for the input of victims groups and community leaders in the salary determination process for individual judges. The judges would receive this feedback on a yearly basis which would help to ensure that they reflect the values and standards of the public they serve. The point is that there would be more immediate feedback in the instance of an extremely lenient sentence being given to a child molester or a probationary sentence being given to someone convicted of manslaughter. The judges would find out right away that a large segment of society is against that kind of sentencing.
The fact that judges actually are public servants should not be lost on the House or on the judges themselves. It seems that the concept that they are public servants is a missing ingredient in our society today.
When I consider the legislative action which has been taken and, in particular, the bill which we are debating today, something becomes obvious. The government is not reflecting community values, standards and current thinking on appropriate compensation for public servants, the judges, who are the subject of this bill.
I would like to comment on Motion No. 1 and the rationale behind the motion. Clause 5 pertains to the increase in judges' salaries which will be 4.1%, retroactive to April 1, 1997. No one is getting an increase retroactive to April 1, 1997 and the judges should not be getting one either.