Debates of Sept. 23rd, 1998

Apec Summit

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Five were arrested, Mr. Speaker. The rest were not and none of them were pepper sprayed.

Surely it is the responsibility of the Prime Minister to stand up for human rights, at least at home, and not to fluff the pillow for some foreign dictator.

What Canadians do not understand is why the Prime Minister went to such extraordinary lengths for a foreign dictator who is reviled in his own country, even suppressing the rights of Canadians in order to protect him simply from embarrassment.

The next time the government invites a brutal dictator to Canada, does the Prime Minister intend to conduct himself in the same way?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the APEC meeting rules were established to protect the security of all the leaders. The rules apply to all the leaders: the President of the United States, the Prime Minister of Australia, the Prime Minister of Malaysia, the Prime Minister of Japan.

We had a system to make sure that they could come to the APEC meeting, a very important meeting, and deliberate in a peaceful atmosphere. The exact same rules applied to everyone.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians are still waiting to hear precisely what was the Prime Minister's role in authorizing the special treatment of Suharto and the attack on the Canadian students.

The public complaints inquiry will not tell us that because, according to the RCMP Act, that inquiry only investigates the conduct of RCMP officers and not their political masters.

Who will be investigating the role of the Prime Minister in this whole affair? Will the Prime Minister co-operate fully?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have nothing to hide. There is an inquiry and in fact it has asked two members of my staff to appear. They have volunteered to be there. The sherpa responsible for the conference will appear also.

The commission will decide who it wants to hear. It will do its work. Let it do its work.

[John Reynolds, Reform, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister. Forty boxes of evidence were turned over to commission counsel and virtually nothing in those boxes had any evidence from the Prime Minister's office or the PMO.

What assurance can the Prime Minister give Canadians that, unlike the Somalia affair, documents of the APEC affair will not be shredded?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I think the Public Complaints Commission has distinguished itself over the years quite remarkably.

In fact, Canadians have every right to the truth on this matter. Parliament, this institution, decided that the way to get to that truth was through this very organization. I really wish that they would let them do their work.

[John Reynolds, Reform, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my supplementary question is to the Prime Minister.

We, like all Canadians, want to know the truth. We know there is a commission. We know the commission cannot investigate the government. We want assurances from this government that unlike Somalia, unlike the Krever commission, documents will not be shredded so that this commission gets everything that is available from this government.

Anybody who did anything from the PMO, the solicitor general's office and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs should be before that commission. That is what Canadians demand. We want the assurance from this government that they will do that.

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, it is because we have such high regard for the Public Complaints Commission that when it makes these requests it gets the information it asked for.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the Prime Minister said, and I quote “I have been in politics for a long time. As a minister, I have seen many people in departments speaking on behalf of their ministers or on behalf of the Prime Minister, not knowing—”

Was the Prime Minister telling us that individuals in his own office acted without his knowledge in the Suharto matter, without his being informed?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the answer is no.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, either the Prime Minister was informed or he was talking for the sake of talking yesterday. It has to be one or the other, not both.

Could the Prime Minister tell us whether the Minister of Foreign Affairs, on his return from Indonesia, told him of the commitments he had made that there would be no problems and that Suharto would not be troubled during his visit to Vancouver?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Foreign Affairs made a statement about that yesterday.

We told all heads of state that they could come to Canada, that their lives would not be in danger and their security would be ensured and that we could carry on normal talks, because we were discussing very important problems at that point, such as the Asian financial crisis.

[Richard Marceau, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

One might wonder how innocuous student groups could endanger the lives of other leaders. We learned this morning that not only did the RCMP brutally repress the demonstrators in Vancouver, but that it also infiltrated student groups.

Does the Prime Minister deny the direct link between the extraordinary promises of the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the extraordinary actions of the RCMP, who pepper-spray, infiltrate, shove and even, as a preventive measure, arrest completely harmless students?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, it surprises me that members of parliament would have such disregard for an instrument that was set up by parliament to get to the truth of this matter.

These are old questions that relate to that inquiry and they have the responsibility to let the instrument of this place do its job.

[Richard Marceau, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister, since the solicitor general has, as usual, been left out of the loop.

Is the clearly extreme behaviour of the RCMP, who infiltrate, rough up, and—I repeat—as a preventive measure, arrest demonstrating students, not the direct result of this Prime Minister's obsession with doing whatever it took to bring this dictator to Canada?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, in a free and democratic society Canadians have the right to a way of challenging the law enforcement agencies, in this case the RCMP.

That instrument, as established by the Parliament of Canada, is the Public Complaints Commission. Most of the questions being put here today are questions that would be directed to the Public Complaints Commission and I wish that the members opposite would let it get to the truth because that is what Canadians deserve.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister. Yesterday the Prime Minister blamed staff for the shameful suppression of the peaceful protest that took place at the APEC summit.

He has now had time to reflect on those facts.

Will the Prime Minister tell us today whether it was his staff acting in his name or whether he himself gave the orders?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member likes to make vague accusations based on nothing.

There is an inquiry and the inquiry will ask questions.

They have asked for the presence of two people on my staff, who said they would be happy to go. The other people who are responsible for the meeting, like the sherpa, are willing to go. Everything will be available for the commission to look at.

We received these leaders and everything went according—

[The Speaker]

The hon. leader of the New Democratic Party.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister may deny involvement, but eyewitnesses suggest otherwise.

Inside the APEC security net, Chief Gail Sparrow saw the Prime Minister barking out orders, not just to his own staff but to security staff as well.

When will the Prime Minister stop denying his direct participation in this fiasco?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I think it is important for members of all parties to recognize that, in Canada, Canadians have the opportunity to challenge the authority of the RCMP in this case. There is a process in place. It was set up by the previous government and it deserves the right to do its job.

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, today Canada welcomes President Nelson Mandela, who spent his life fighting for human rights and civil liberties.

Canada's former prime minister, Brian Mulroney, stood up with President Mandela in that noble struggle. Today we have a Prime Minister who appears to care less about civil liberties and more about sparing dictator embarrassment.

Will the Prime Minister, like Mr. Mandela, do the right thing? Will he give this House a full account of his role in the RCMP actions against Canadians at the APEC summit?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I can see that the hon. member is moving from blue to almost red at this moment. We know that she understands the party has to evolve a bit.

Yes, I am happy to say that Prime Minister Mulroney, like his predecessors, starting with Prime Minister Diefenbaker, were working strongly against apartheid in South Africa. And we are very happy that Nelson Mandela is coming here.

With respect to human rights, I would like to tell the hon. member that I was the one, as the minister of justice, who worked for months with attorneys general and the House of Commons to have—

[The Speaker]

The hon. leader of the Conservative Party.

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, section 19 of the Immigration Act prohibits security personnel who work for a government engaged in gross human rights violations from entering Canada unless the immigration minister is satisfied these people are not detrimental to the national interest.

Indonesia under Suharto killed countless people. Since the Prime Minister will not answer my first question, will the minister of immigration tell us if she believes it was in Canada's interest to let in Suharto's so-called goons with guns, the same goons who asked the RCMP if it was okay to shoot Canadians?