Debates of Sept. 24th, 1998

The Senate

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I think it has been well established that ministers do not answer with respect to any regional responsibilities. They answer with respect to departmental responsibilities.

The hon. member should know that because she has been here quite a while. Why does she want somebody to be elected for life without any recourse of the people originally carrying out the election to get somebody else if they do not like the way the job is done? That is not democratic.

In spite of what she says here, she and her party had a chance to have an elected Senate had they supported Charlottetown. They rejected Charlottetown. They have to live with the results of their irresponsibility.

[Randy White, Reform, Langley—Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this might surprise you. I am not quite prepared for this question.

I would like to ask the justice minister, once again who is from Alberta, just why is it that she will not stand up and answer the questions put—-

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Vancouver East.

Apec Summit

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. Today we heard how Canada brought honour to itself as a leader in the battle to end apartheid, a system deplored for its violent contempt of human rights. But at APEC the Prime Minister brought dishonour when he trampled on the rights of Canadian students to welcome a dictator deplored for his contempt of both human rights and human life.

Will the government come clean on APEC and reassure the young people of Canada that we are a defender, not an abuser, of human rights?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have to reject the premise of the hon. member's question. The Prime Minister is a vigorous spokesman for human rights. He was the chief protagonist of the charter of rights and freedoms. This should be recognized and the Prime Minister should be praised for his continuous defence of human rights in Canada and around the world.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, for a Prime Minister who talks so much about human rights, his actions in Vancouver speak louder than words. Students opposed to APEC were detained without cause, violently attacked and are expected to defend themselves with neither funding nor support against a battalion of backroom government lawyers.

Will the Prime Minister and the government do the right thing and provide the legal representation for students attacked at APEC?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, it is because we respect due process that we would like to see it work and let the public complaints commission do its job as the students have requested.

[Scott Brison, Progressive Conservative, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister says it is more effective to engage dictators than to isolate them. The whole idea with engagement is that by engaging dictators in a dialogue, we can teach them something about human rights. My question for the Prime Minister is did Suharto learn about human rights while he was in Canada or did the Prime Minister take lessons from Suharto in systematic abuse of power and oppression?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I reject the unwarranted premise of the hon. member's question.

I know it has been publicly reported that both the Prime Minister and the Minister of Foreign Affairs raised the human rights issue with Suharto in Indonesia itself. That took a lot of guts. They should be praised for that and their continued defence of human rights in Canada and around the world.

[Scott Brison, Progressive Conservative, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday in the House the finance minister said we have separated politics from the administration of the public service. Yet when the Ontario ministry of finance requested information about the CPP from Bernard Dussault, the former chief watchdog of the CPP, Bernard Dussault wrote a letter saying he could not provide that information because it had to be vetted through a new committee of the department of finance which would review the information for its political sensitivity.

Will the minister tell us why his department gagged Bernard Dussault, or is this simply another abuse of power?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, that is one supplementary question.

The fact is I am not aware of correspondence that Mr. Dussault may have had with the Government of Ontario. I will look at it.

Ice Storm

[Denis Paradis, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Mr. Speaker, several municipalities in my riding as well as in our region are complaining about not receiving payment for their ice storm damage claims.

Could the President of the Treasury Board tell this House where the money went?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, under the disaster assistance arrangement, the provinces are responsible for both managing the situation and paying municipalities, individuals and organizations for the losses suffered. The role of the federal government is to reimburse the province afterwards, based on a set formula.

What happened in this case, is that the PQ government refused to pay the municipalities the amounts they may be entitled to, claiming this is a provincial jurisdiction. And the provincial government cannot hide anything because we are not paying—

[The Speaker]

The leader of the official opposition.

Trade

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, every day that the violations of the free trade agreement by the U.S. border states continue it hurts our farmers.

We welcome the decision by the government to take the first step toward ending this dispute through submitting it to NAFTA arbitration.

Will the minister tell the House what is the earliest possible date that a formal dispute settling panel can be set up and will he tell Canadian farmers what they are to do in the interim?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, in response to my colleague's earlier question, I mentioned very clearly that going to NAFTA and WTO is but a first step. Clearly we will be seeing the American response and acting accordingly.

To the specifics of the hon. member's question, within NAFTA the first meeting must be held within 15 days. At the WTO it is within 10.

Canadian Economy

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister of Finance makes all sorts of smart aleck remarks, but he failed to mention earlier that, in light of the increase in interest rates by the Bank of Canada and the latest figures on the downturn, financial analysts are the ones currently demanding that the minister take action to stabilize the economy.

Will the Minister of Finance still be a smart aleck when, in a few months, we are facing a full-blown recession because of him and thousands of jobs are lost because he failed to listen to economic indicators today?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member must know that short to mid term interest rates are lower now than they were two months ago, and even last month. In fact, they are almost at an all time low for stimulating the economy.

Once again, perhaps the hon. member does not believe me, but “we believe the Canadian economy is strong and sound, not threatened”.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

This was said by Lucien Bouchard, the premier of Quebec, in August.

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Oxford.

Oceans

[John Finlay, Liberal, Oxford, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this is the international year of the oceans. Since our country is bordered by the Atlantic, Pacific and Arctic Oceans I ask the minister of fisheries what this government is doing to improve the health of our oceans.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, the government recognized early in its mandate the importance of oceans. As a result, we introduced into law, effective January 1, 1998, the Oceans Act.

There have been many events taking place across Canada over this summer to celebrate the international year of the oceans. We do have an oceans strategy and we are working on that more thoroughly.

Recently two pilot marine protection projects were established in British Columbia and there are considerations for projects in the Atlantic and the Arctic as well.

Canada Pension Plan

[Maurice Vellacott, Reform, Wanuskewin, SK]

Mr. Speaker, let us see if we have this straight with regard to the firing of the chief actuary of the Canada pension plan.

We understand that the Minister of Finance is informed by the superintendent of financial institutions that there are serious problems with the highly respected chief actuary. The chief actuary is widely known as a man of integrity and competence.

The minister would have us believe that he did not even bother to ask about the nature of the problems. That is absolutely incredible.

Is this really the minister's position? Does he expect the Canadian public to believe this line?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I go back to the point. The hon. member simply does not understand how the Canadian system works. Mr. Dussault reports to the superintendent of financial institutions. We have separated politics from the administration of the public service.

Consider carefully what Reformers are saying. They are suggesting that politicians should influence the choice of senior level public servants. They are suggesting that we should politicize the public service.

That would be the death knell of the finest public service in this country, and the Reform Party ought to understand that.