Debates of Sept. 30th, 1998

Apec Summit

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

The Prime Minister has already bought the loyalty of his personal protege, Jean Carle, with a patronage appointment.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

I ask the hon. member to get directly to his question.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Prime Minister to demonstrate dignity and integrity by speaking in the House on his role in the APEC affair.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, there is an inquiry. It will look at all the facts. We have collaborated with the commission. It asked two persons of my staff to appear, and they will be there.

Let the commission do its work. I have nothing to hide, absolutely nothing to hide. That is why we are happy that the commission will start its work on Monday. Let it do its work.

When the inquiry is over I will be here. I am here every day, sir, to reply to your questions. I am not afraid at all.

[The Speaker]

I know hon. members will remember that I am here too and that they should address me.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that is hard to forget. The head of the APEC operations was very specific in his memo.

He said that “the PMO has expressed concerns about the security perimeter, not so much from a security point of view but to avoid embarrassment to the APEC leaders”. This is the most damning piece of evidence in this saga so far.

How much longer will the Prime Minister deny that he was involved in this affair?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as the House is well aware, I am sure, the inquiry commences on Monday.

In the interest of getting to the truth, I think we should leave it to the inquiry to do that, as parliament instructed when the Public Complaints Commission was established by the House to do just that job.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has just told the House and Canadians that he is here every day to answer the questions, so maybe he could just do that little thing for us.

There are new documents that are coming forward every day. There are new witnesses every day: Craig Jones, Chief Sparrow, Mr. Vanderloo. The paper trail is getting longer and longer.

Does the Prime Minister still believe there is a great conspiracy going on against the Prime Minister, or could it be the other way around?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, that is what the leader of the NDP said. They talk about somebody who apparently saw me giving orders and she heard nothing. They never apologized because the chief in question never heard anything.

It is the same thing. She accused Mr. Goldenberg of calling the president of the university. It was just the reverse, and they have not apologized.

They should just check their facts, and the best way is to wait for the commission that will look at all the facts.

Auditor General's Report

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the auditor general looked into 285 cases of improper conduct reported in 18 months in Revenue Canada and noted that there were many more.

How did the Minister of National Revenue have the gall on Monday to gloat over the high level of security in his department on the eve of the presentation of the report by the auditor general, which reveals hundreds of cases of improper conduct in his own department?

[Herb Dhaliwal, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, in fact the auditor general in the last two reports has actually given us a very good report. If the hon. member read the report, the auditor general clearly said that Revenue Canada has a solid foundation for the promotion of integrity.

We work very closely with the auditor general and will certainly look at some of the recommendations and how we can strengthen and enhance our systems.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if 285 cases of improper conduct constitute a solid foundation, I do not know that the total number would represent.

The auditor general reports that the government is already having a hard time assuring security and integrity within the department of revenue, with all the bribes, leaks, abuses of power and everything else.

What should we think about a government that is now contemplating giving tax collection over to an independent agency, which would have even less accountability than Revenue Canada?

[Herb Dhaliwal, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member really wants to look at problems in revenue, he should look at Revenue Quebec. That is where the real problems are.

Apec Summit

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, according to the organizer of the APEC summit the Prime Minister's office wanted to balance the wishes of foreign dictators against the rights of protesters at APEC. Well, balance; you don't balance the constitutional rights of Canadians against the feelings of a foreign dictator.

Does the Prime Minister agree with his press secretary? Are the constitutional rights of Canadians to be balanced against the hurt feelings of a foreign dictator?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I am sure Canadians want to get to the bottom of all these questions. There is an instrument to do that. It is called the Public Complaints Commission. It represents the interest of the public.

It starts its work on Monday. I would wish members opposite would let it do its work so we can get to the truth in the interest of the Canadian public.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, did we not hear the Prime Minister say he is here to answer our questions today? Why does he not get up and answer them? I think the Prime Minister better get his lines straight if he is to be at the Public Complaints Commission and testify.

All summer long he has been saying “I have had nothing to do with it. Don't blame me. I am innocent”. There is a paper trail that leads right to the Prime Minister's office, and the paper trail says that the Prime Minister traded the constitutional rights of honest Canadians against the dictator Suharto. Why did the Prime Minister do that?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. member is trading his interest for the truth—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

The hon. solicitor general.

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I think Canadians want to get to the truth. I think the hon. member is trading his interest and Canadians' interest in the truth to try to score cheap political points here.

The commission starts on Monday. I think we deserve to give the respect of the House to that organization, a body organized by the House which I think will satisfy the Canadian population's interest in getting to the bottom of this.

Québec-Téléphone

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Mitis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

The government is bowing to the pressures of lobbyists and preparing to deny Québec-Téléphone access to the same competitive conditions as Bell Canada enjoys. Yet Québec-Téléphone offers its customers state-of-the-art technology, including Internet services to Lourdes-de-Blanc-Sablon, while tens of thousands of Bell subscribers are still waiting for private lines.

Why is the government presenting itself as the great champion of competition, while doggedly refusing to comply with Québec-Téléphone's request to expand its fibre-optic network beyond its present service area?

[Walt Lastewka, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, as hon. members know, Canada is committed to its Canadian ownership rules for owners of telecommunciations and transmission facilities.

The Bloc knows there is no support for QuebecTel's request among Quebec based companies, whether it be Bell, Videotron or COGECO. I am sure the Bloc would understand that if there is no support for the project the Government of Canada also should not support the project.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Mitis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the government did not need anyone else's support, it had legislation behind it. Québec-Téléphone was grandfathered, and once grandfathered, always grandfathered.

Why is the government preparing to take decisions in relation to Québec-Téléphone which prevent the company from expanding, instead of giving it the right to play according to the same rules of competition as Bell Canada?