Madam Speaker, I am extremely pleased to rise to speak to Bill C-3. I am pleased as well that the reconvening of parliament and the gathering of members of parliament back to this place will allow us to continue the debate of the Liberal government's youth criminal justice act, now known as Bill C-3, formerly Bill C-68, which was another poorly put together bill.
The proposed replacement of the current Young Offenders Act is one which has received a great deal of attention, and rightly so, and a great deal of consternation throughout the country. It will be an entirely new piece of legislation that pertains specifically to youth in this country.
Youth justice is certainly a matter of great concern for all Canadians, for the Progressive Conservative Party, the government and all opposition parties. In my riding of Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough I hear regularly from people who are affected and who are extremely concerned about the direction in which youth criminal justice is going in this country.
I also find that the concern that is expressed very often by the government has resulted in an extremely lengthy waiting period with respect to the introduction of this legislation. We know that it was throughout many election campaigns a priority that was spelled out in documents. However, it took the government 18 months before first introducing this bill in its original form, Bill C-68. With much fanfare, in March 1999 the bill was finally tabled by the minister of justice. We also know, as is very often the practice, that much of it had been media tested and leaked prior to its introduction here in the House, or I should say its introduction through the press gallery.
Then, on the eve of parliament reconvening this fall, there was a prorogation. This delayed the opening of the House by three weeks and we know that there were huge issues burning in the country at the time: the proposed hostile takeover, the fisheries crisis that is absolutely a tinderbox which is about to explode on the east coast, as well as the refugee crisis. We also know that there are problems within our justice system. It is absolutely shameful that the government again chose to delay dealing with problems which I have mentioned, as well as the introduction of this very necessary legislation.
One would have thought that throughout the summer months of reflection this might have prompted the minister of justice to strengthen or perhaps revise some of the act. This did not happen. There are no sweeping changes in the legislation that appears before us. Bill C-3 is the mirror image of Bill C-68, but for the fact that the justice department did, in fairness, go through the problem of spell-check to correct some of the language so that at least the French and English languages correspond.
We have waited an eternity for Bill C-3, but it is, we are quick to acknowledge in the Conservative Party, an attempt to replace what was a very ineffective and in many instances a very dangerous piece of legislation. I am talking about the former Young Offenders Act. However, this particular bill, I personally feel, will not live up to much of the billing that has been placed before the Canadian public. In response to overwhelming public pressure to toughen up the act the Liberal government has employed a process of smoke and mirrors to give the appearance that this is in fact what is happening.
I say with all honesty that this is not the case. That is not to say that simply toughening up the act is going to address the problems that exist with youth crime in this country. That is not to say that there are not any positive elements in this bill. In fairness, all opposition members and government members who have preceded me in speaking in this debate have indicated that there are indeed some very positive elements in Bill C-3.
These are not new nuances. These are not changes that have not been contemplated in the past. In fact I find it almost ironic that much of what we are talking about in this debate is actually a return to philosophies and methodologies in the criminal justice system that we have used in the past under previous legislation such as the juvenile offenders act, legislation which has come full circle now in terms of how we react to young persons who become involved in criminal activity.
There is certainly one very positive element of this bill that I would be quick to recognize and that is the concept of parental responsibility. This bill attempts to bring adults, and parents specifically, more into the system. One can agree very quickly that this is a necessary element. There has to be a more holistic approach, a family style approach, to the problems that often lead up to and continue to exist when a young person runs afoul of the law.
This degree of accountability, not only for the young person but for the parent, is crucial in addressing youth crime. It is a fair question, I suggest, for a judge to ask a parent in a courtroom in an open fashion, “Where were you when your 14 year old was breaking into your neighbour's house? Why was your child out on a school night under the influence of alcohol or drugs committing a criminal offence? Why is your child acting out in such a violent way?” These are relevant questions, and questions that I feel a parent should be held to account for as well.
The entire issue of the age of accountability is something that is dodged by this particular piece of legislation. I am quick to point out that it is a suggestion that has been certainly echoed by members of the opposition, but it originated in a report that was commissioned by the government itself. This was an idea that was not just floated by opposition members and it is not just an attempt I suggest to try to find fault with the act. This was a recommendation by an expert under the financial auspices of the government.
It raises the hackles on the necks of government members when they hear the suggestion, and they point out that we already have many agencies in place to address youth under the age of 12 who are not encompassed by the old act or the new act, that these agencies are the ones most properly suited to deal with youth in contravention of the law. However, I am very quick to remind the government and the House that the legislation does not bolster the support that is needed in the areas of child welfare and early intervention.
There are an increasing number of youth under the age of 12 who are completely untouched by our criminal justice system. It is the rapid response, I would suggest, that is most important in dealing with crime at an early age, and allowing our criminal justice system to react. This is not a bar on placing children into those agencies. We already know that our justice system works very much hand in glove with those social services, with those agencies. This is not to suggest for a minute that the criminal justice system will be solely responsible for children under the age of 12 who run afoul of the law. It is simply to suggest that we have to have a mechanism that will bring them into the system in a quick and effective way.
Police officers are often faced with an extremely frustrating situation where an 11 or sometimes even a 10 year old—and it seems unthinkable but it does happen on occasion—is involved in a very serious offence perhaps involving a weapon, perhaps involving threats or a violent act. Under the current system and under the system that the new legislation will put in place, police officers are virtually powerless. They can contact the agencies, but they do not have at their discretion the same elements that would exist under the criminal law.
This is one of the many reasons that I have introduced a private member's bill that would do just that. I know other members of the House have some reservations about this, but it is not solely to hammer youth under the age of 12. It is simply to widen the net, to broaden what the act encompasses.
If there are positive elements, and there certainly are positive elements in the act, why would we not want to have those early interventions, those elements that will hopefully focus our attention on the root problems of crime, applied to a broader age group of young people in the country?
There are other sections of the act that I would like to address as well. Bill C-3 certainly does not address the financial responsibilities that are also encompassed by the administration of criminal law in the country, and that is true of the old act. It has been declining since 1984. It has been getting steadily worse when it comes to the federal government's commitment to the provinces and the administration of criminal law in the country. I am not going to broaden that by discussing criminal law generally, but with respect to the administration of the Young Offenders Act, the federal government has completely abrogated its responsibility in holding up its financial end of the deal. That is true in the province of Quebec, Nova Scotia and right across the country.
This is something I know the province of Quebec, in many instances, has focused its attention on. It has in fact initiated more programs and put more provincial funding into it, perhaps at the expense of other programming, because it recognizes the importance of it. The province of Quebec is perhaps a leader in many of the areas of programming that the government envisions will be brought about as a result of changes in the act.
Bill C-3 gives the provinces increased responsibilities; they will have to offer with more programs and become more involved in the administration of this legislation.
For now, there is no new funding in sight from the federal government. A number of experts, including the government's, agree that the age of accountability should be lowered from 12 to 10. This is not designed to punish young people, but to make them accountable to the justice system.
Intervention at the earliest possible juncture is the most effective way to get youth back on track before its too late. The government says that it will do this with the new bill and, to an extent, it does focus its attention on that area of the law. Clause 34, for example, is the medical and psychological report clause to determine if a youth is in fact suffering from some affliction or disorders that need to be treated and not necessarily punished.
This is not a new concept. It is certainly one that the Conservative Party, others in the House and those in the criminal justice system are quick to embrace and recognize. However, we do know that there is a lack of federal commitment to provincial rehabilitative programs and to mental health counselling. This commitment is what are needed. This is where the focus has to be.
What the act does, in simple terms, is to identify the problem as a priority and drop it in the provinces' lap and walk away. That is simply not good enough.
Young females in conflict with the law is a rising problem in the country. There was a very serious case that drew a great deal of attention across the country involving a young woman named Reena Virk in the province of British Columbia. This again is something that is highlighted across the country. Young women are becoming more increasingly involved in the criminal justice system as a result of many of the other social problems that exist.
This is again why I hearken back to earlier comments. If the government, through this legislation and this initiative, wants to focus its attention on the front end problem and on bringing about change that will assist young people to stay out of difficulty with the law, the preventative side of justice, the restorative justice side which is at the end but which puts greater emphasis on personal interaction with victims and those who can truly assist, identify and perhaps cure or treat some of the problems that led to the difficulty in the first place, that is fine. Philosophically, members of the House would agree that that it is the right approach.
However, the government is not putting in place the resources that are necessary. It has identified what it wants to do. It has made a great deal of fanfare and drawn a great deal of attention to itself as having brought this bold new initiative about, yet it is not prepared to pony up and pay for the programming that is going to be necessary. It has increased the responsibilities and the burden that is going to be carried by the provinces, the agencies, the police and the judicial system for those programs that are specifically aimed at addressing the problem. It has walked away because there is not one dollar more that is going to go into this program as a result.
The difficulty itself is a very complex one. Sometimes in this place we suffer from oversimplification in telling people what they want to hear. This is not a problem that is going to go away quickly. As with previous legislation aimed at the criminal justice system, I would suggest that there is going to be a lag time. The true effects of the legislation may take years to actually develop in the country.
Because of the complexity and diversity of the country, it may have a different affect in some provinces. I am focusing specifically on the ability of the provinces themselves to administer the act because we know there is a huge discrepancy in the country currently as to the financial ability of the provinces to provide services to their people.
It only stands to reason that if we increase the provinces' responsibility without increasing the proportionate resources then it will be exacerbated further. The differences that currently exist means that the have not provinces will be further burdened and will fall further behind. This is truly a very broad sweeping problem.
The focus in the Chamber is most often between the province of Quebec and the provinces in English-speaking Canada. I come from a region in Atlantic Canada where we are suffering grave differences between our ability to provide for our people through social services, through criminal justice and through employment than the rest of the country. This will be played out through this legislation as it is with all legislation.
Canadians expected more and they were led to believe that they would get more through the legislation. They were led to believe that there would be a tougher response in certain instances for youth involved in violent acts, acts involving the use of weapons or sexual violation. That is not the case.
The transfer provisions that were touched on by many of the previous speakers are a bit of a ruse in a way. They give the impression that we are taking a young person into the adult court system. This may cause many people to shudder and think, “Oh, my goodness, we are bringing a 14 year old or 15 year old into an adult court where he or she will be treated in a much harsher way”.
The reality is that in many instances the sentences that are handed down at the end of the day are actually less in terms of the time that the person would be incarcerated as a young offender because—and I hate to use this expression because it is somewhat of a misnomer—but truth in sentencing existed under the old Young Offenders Act. That is to say that if young persons were sentenced to 18 months they would serve every day. They would remain in a young offender facility for that full period of incarceration. We know that is not the case in the adult system.
This is not to say for a moment that incarceration is always the way. We know that the programming that is often available is not sufficient. We also know that simply removing a person from society will not fix them. It is often the last resort brought about to protect society when necessary from a person who has exhibited violent, anti-social behaviour.
The concept of simply bringing a person into adult court and saying that it will fix the problem because he or she will be treated in a harsher fashion is not necessarily the truth of what has happened. I believe it is incumbent on the government to be very up front about what the system change will really amount to.
The programming that is available in a youth facility is often the more appropriate one. Often times bringing them into adult court exposes them to this atmosphere that has been discussed, which is that they will learn more sophisticated ways to commit crimes. They may be further victimized in an adult facility. There is an extremely dangerous element to this quick fix type solution that is being proposed.
As has been stated many times, there are elements where this particular legislation has moved in the right direction. I, like all members of the justice committee and of the House, look forward to participating at the committee level and to the changes that may be brought about through that level of participation.
I congratulate the participants who have taken part in the debate, as well as those who participated at the committee with their testimony. I look forward to further following the legislation as it moves through this place.