Mr. Speaker, first I want to thank my colleague from Témiscamingue for sharing his speaking time with me. He knows how much the fight against this legislation is close to my heart, and I think that he is carrying the torch beautifully, as usual. I know he will continue to fight in this House against this legislation that cannot be allowed to go unchanged.
Having followed this legislation through all the stages since its tabling in early September, last year, effectively suspending the long-standing consultation process between the provinces and the federal government, it is clear to me that the minister of Industry could have used the time available to him to try to harmonize his bill with the Quebec legislation. But he obviously did not even try to do so.
And yet, this minister is an intelligent man. Why has he not tried to make stock of the Quebec experience? I should point out that Quebec is the first North American state to have passed, in 1994, a legislation for the protection of personal information. Quebec's five-year experience made it possible to confirm with businesses that the law was starting to be enforced seriously.
There is no personal information protection culture. Neither is there sufficient training for the public. In Quebec however the law was starting to be seriously applied.
Instead of building on this experience, the minister has developed an altogether new logic based on a national standard originally designed as a voluntary measure by businesses. That is what he would rather have.
He decided to change this proposal, which was not as stringent as a legislative proposal would be. He made it into a legislative proposal and an appendix to the bill.
Based on the opinion of several legal counsels and according to witnesses who appeared before the committee, this is the worst legislation ever developed. But this act is not just any act. It does not respect the spirit of the Speech from the Throne and is not some kind of government provision. No, it is an act similar to the Labour Code.
This act is one people will actually have to work with. Citizens who want their personal information to be protected will depend on it. The situation will be extremely confusing for Quebecers. Why? Precisely because the minister decided to ignore Quebec's experience and did not even try to accommodate Quebec's act. He chose to use a completely different logic.
Let me say this: I know that those who worked to have a Canadian standard, a voluntary standard for businesses, developed—and we have nothing against that, on the contrary—are for the most part from Quebec. The Civil Liberties Union was one of them. But some of the individuals who participated in this process told me that they would never have done it had they known that their work might be used as the foundation for a piece of legislation, because it was not designed for legislative purposes. It does not specifically provide citizens with rights.
We are now reviewing a legislation that will soon be enacted. On the pretext of dealing with electronic commerce, this federal act would infringe upon a jurisdiction that comes under the provinces, and Quebec in particular.
I noticed that the other provinces, after reacting strongly, through their justice ministers, when they looked into the federal government's bill, decided to put up with this, with the exception of Ontario with regard to health information, and maybe a number of other provinces in western Canada. The fact is that they did not have any legislation in that area. This bill, which will soon become law, means that Quebec will have to enforce a federal act in an area under provincial jurisdiction.
One must know that, prior to the federal government legislating in that area, personal information enjoyed complete protection under Quebec's legislation. According to the legal interpretations we have seen, only the adoption of a federal act could challenge the application of the provincial act. Again, I do not know what decisions will be made but, for the time being, Quebec's legislation continues to provide complete protection with regard to personal information.
What does the federal act do? It says—actually, it is the minister who introduced it and the government that supported it who had the nerve to say this—that, in an area that comes under Quebec's jurisdiction, it will be up to the federal government to decide in which circumstances the provincial act will apply, in what area and to which organizations.
What a mess. Will this mess promote better enforcement of the law? It will, and for a long time, not provide greater protection but, on the contrary, slow down the process that gave Quebec a system that was working more and more smoothly.
Let me say briefly that, contrary the federal legislation, Quebec's legislation is clear. People can see what their rights are. It is easy to apply because any citizen can go to the Human Rights Commission where, after an inquiry, a decision is rendered. The Commission can make a ruling and exercise this right so all citizens can obtain justice.
For most people, the issue of personal information protection is about changing some incorrect information contained in a person's file.
The federal legislation provides that that person must try to agree with the company, and when this is not possible, he or she must file a complaint with the Privacy Commissioner. After reviewing the case, the commissioner makes a recommendation which is forwarded to the complainant. A report is produced within a year and if the complainant is not satisfied, he or she may take the case before the federal court.
Of course, the Privacy Commissioner can also decide, in exceptional cases, to take the case himself before the federal court. Otherwise, after the long process provided in the bill, the complainant is back at square one and still has to pay if he wants the recommendation to become a ruling.
I heard the minister say that Canadians want their personal information protected. Yes, they do and they should not have to wait. But when he says, however, that the bill will ensure the protection of personal information, I respectfully submit that the minister has maybe relied too much on his counsellors and, above all, that he has not looked at Quebec's legislation. He has not considered that there could be more efficient and clearer ways to protect the rights of citizens.
There is more. Not only the federal legislation will be enforced, but it will also state in what fields the provincial legislation can be applied. But does the citizen who has a problem with a business know if it is federally or provincially regulated according to this legislation? What will he do? He will either not file a complaint at all or file one with the wrong government, in which case the legal time limit could expire. This legislation will create more confusion.
It is for good reason then that, on five occasions, Quebec's ministers wrote to the industry minister and requested a meeting with him, and asked him to postpone the process in order to harmonize it. We, members of the Bloc Quebecois, have repeatedly tried to convince the industry committee and the minister to take advantage of the delays during the session of Parliament, or even of the summer recess, to make an attempt at harmonization. Why did the government not try to do it?
I attended the Forum of Federations, where I heard what I already know: Federalism—and I am not talking about Canadian federalism—is a system that is theoretically flexible. It is a system that, in theory, allows different cultures and languages to coexist. I say theoretically because the process of legislation on personal information in which I have been involved for more than a year is not the least bit flexible.
According to the theoreticians, including those working for the Forum of Federations, federations work best in homogeneous countries. That is the problem. The problem is that Quebec is a people and a nation. Its privacy legislation is governed by civil law, with its origins in France. But it is civil law. The rest of Canada is governed by common law—this is not a defect, just a difference. In fact, in the western world there are two major traditions, civil law and common law. Now, instead of trying to take the difference into consideration, the federal government has chosen to eliminate it.
This is one more lesson. Any student of law, politics or anyone else wanting to know the status of Canadian federalism has only to trace the process of passage of this legislation. It is a significant piece of legislation, since it goes to the very heart of Quebec civil law.
Earlier this week, I had the opportunity to accompany the minister to the G-8 summit, where one of the issues addressed was e-commerce security.
As I discovered, and the minister ought to have before me, when there are international negotiations on harmonization—as there will have to be, because a degree of harmonization on personal information based on existing legislation will be necessary—he will find that Quebec is not alone.
The European countries with their differences and their civil law will do as Quebec has done, use a definition of a positive right for citizens. He may also, of course, find there are other countries with a common law tradition that will settle for standards—I will withdraw that expression—will prefer protection related to standards to which businesses agree to comply. Someday, negotiations will have to take place, and Canada could have benefited from the fact that it still has a province, Quebec, which has a civil law tradition, instead of trying to bury this tradition and replace it by something else.
Instead of making good use of the time it had on its hands to harmonize both legislations, it has steadfastly refused to do it. Instead of using to its advantage the Quebec experience to deal with an issue that is quite difficult, as it will find out, it preferred to go about it in a completely different way, with a totally different logic, by relying almost totally on businesses' co-operation. Quite well. Everything is fine when businesses do co-operate, but what happens when they do not? What should we do? Should we let private citizens fend for themselves? Of course not. That is the problem.
When the citizens' rights are not clearly and precisely spelled out, when the means to have them respected are not free and efficient, we can have all the legislation we want, it is of no use to them. Instead of using the Quebec experience, in which companies will have to abide by a certain set of rules, it will force companies in Quebec to follow two set of rules, never knowing for sure which one applies.
The government has refused to even try to harmonize its legislation with the one in Quebec. Instead of taking this advantage it will soon need in international negotiation, that is the experience of harmonizing two great traditions, the civil law and the common law, the government chose to set one of these traditions aside, the French one, to bury it, and forget about it.
The Chambre des notaires is extremely concerned about the definitions of signature. The Chambre des notaires can only accept a document if the signature meets the conditions set out in the Quebec Civil Code. This is a whole aspect of French live, Quebec tradition and culture which is at stake, and the minister, instead of understanding the intensity of the responses triggered by this, and the depth of the problems created, prefers to ignore the whole thing.
I believe this bill, when it becomes law, will come back to haunt the government because it is not true that it will promote the development of electronic commerce. Everybody has been saying that people must feel safer before they engage in more electronic commerce. This bill will certainly not achieve this goal in Quebec, on the contrary. It creates—as if on purpose, but let us assume it is not on purpose—additional problems for every Quebec company and for all the companies that do business in Quebec.
At the international level also, this bill will come back to haunt the government. For my part, I came to the full realization, once again, that when it comes to the legislative process, Canadian federalism is not consistent with the main characteristics of federalism.