Mr. Speaker, the hon. member who just spoke suggested that perhaps the official opposition should thank the government for allowing the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development to travel to British Columbia.
I suggest to the hon. member that the result of that particular decision having been made this morning through a motion actually came about because there was a very strong representation on the part of the official opposition. We asked why one committee like the Standing Committee on Finance could travel all around Canada, but another committee dealing with an equally significant issue involving not less than $1.3 billion is not allowed to travel. The hon. member should have said thanked the official opposition for making this possible because we have a balanced position in the House.
Now that we have set the perspective I think we should also recognize one of the fundamental issues grasping our young people and many of our constituents back home. I hear it virtually every Saturday that I go out to the Orchard Park shopping mall. They tell me that I am their representative. All those things are happening but last Saturday morning was most telling. It had to do with the Nisga'a treaty. They ask how they can trust the Parliament of Canada to do what they want done. I asked them what they meant and they indicated that they needed to have the Nisga'a treaty defeated. That is what they said; it was not one person who said that.
The hon. leader of the Liberal Party in British Columbia said that the surest way to shatter public trust and confidence in the treaty process was to limit debate on what treaties actually say and do. The federal government should be doing all it can to open up the treaty process. This is a dangerous step on the part of the federal government that will only further undermine public trust. That is serious stuff.
The hon. minister of Indian affairs asked members more than once in the House to read the treaty. I have. Many of us on this side of the House have read it. We support a lot of things in it, but there are some things in it that we seriously question. Our issue is not so much to defeat the treaty.
We need to come to a settlement, but not with all the clauses that are in there now. We need to make some changes. The intent of bringing about closure and of settling the land claims once and for all was a wonderful move. We should endorse that. In fact we do endorse it, but when it is based on a false premise it will not lead to the kind of conclusiveness that we have been told it should develop.
I would very carefully suggest that the government has demonstrated contempt for the people of Canada, particularly aboriginal people. It has been spiteful to the people of Canada by giving them a sense that we will finally settle the issue and we will not. That is dangerous.
Some people ask how we can say such a thing. Let me refer to a couple of clauses in the Nisga'a treaty. I am reading from chapter 16 on direct taxation and other taxation clauses. I wish the hon. member was here to hear this because he just made some serious allegations about it, saying we did not understand. Let him listen. On direct taxation it indicates:
Nisga'a Lisims government may make laws in respect of direct taxation of Nisga'a citizens on Nisga'a lands in order to raise revenue for Nisga'a Nation or Nisga'a village purposes.
The operative word is may, may make laws about that. Then the hon. minister of Indian affairs said that was not now. No, it is not now, but he did not apply it to that clause. He applied it to the next clause. Paragraph 3 reads:
From time to time Canada and British Columbia, together or separately, may negotiate with the Nisga'a Nation, and attempt to reach agreement on:
a. the extent, if any, to which Canada or British Columbia will provide to Nisga'a Lisims Government or a Nisga'a Village Government direct taxation authority over persons other than Nisga'a citizens, on Nisga'a Lands
In both cases the operative word is may. This has to be read in the context of what has happened with regard to other aboriginal treaties, land claims settlements and agreements in principle on self-government where the word may is also included and where the action that was taken was to levy taxes.
Then we should put that into the context of an earlier clause that existed in the Nisga'a treaty. I refer here to chapter 2, paragraph 35, which reads:
If Canada or British Columbia enters into a treaty or a land claims agreement, within the meaning of sections 25 and 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982, with another aboriginal people, and that treaty or land claims agreement adversely affects Nisga'a section 35 rights as set out in this Agreement:
a. Canada or British Columbia, or both, as the case may be, will provide the Nisga'a Nation with additional or replacement rights or other appropriate remedies.
What does this mean? It is very obvious what it means. If there is another treaty with provisions that are more advantageous than those that exist in the Nisga'a treaty, the Nisga'a will get those very same advantages. Here we have a formula for a ratcheting up but not for a ratcheting down.
Where is the conclusiveness in a treaty that has those kinds of provisions in it? That is the difficulty. It is not the difficulty that they have the right to tax. It is the difficulty of doing this in an arbitrary kind of a way and suggesting that there will be the same kind of representation, the same kind of authority to non-Nisga'a as to Nisga'a when it comes to taxing authority and electing people to the group.
I will refer to a band which is not a Nisga'a band but has the right to tax. It also taxes people who are not members of that band. They must pay taxes, but do they have the right to vote for the people who sit on council? No. Do they have the right to discuss or to work with them? Yes, they can consult and negotiate, but since the council is independent it can make whatever decision it wants. Is that what democracy is all about? Is that what we want to do with this treaty? I submit no.
That is what we are talking about when it comes to equality. If we are to live under one government then let the law be equal for the people who are under that government. That is what we are talking about.
Members of the House are not the ones who will suffer the consequences of the treaty. Things will go on reasonably smoothly. Fourteen years from now is about the time the real impact of the treaty will come to be. At that time the final payment will be made as it is outlined in the treaty at a cost of somewhere between $1.3 billion and $1.5 billion. After that our children and our grandchildren who will replace us will find the full impact of the provisions of the treaty.
It is the inequality that is built into the treaty, the spite and the contempt the government has shown to the people. It said that it would give them permanence but it is the exact opposite. It will not give permanence. It will create a situation where one group of people will be pitted against another. Our children and grandchildren are the ones who will suffer from this.