Debates of Nov. 4th, 1999

Presence In Gallery

[The Speaker]

I draw the attention of hon. members to the presence in our gallery of seven of the recipients of the 1999 Governor General Performing Arts awards.

Greatly talented artists, accept our warmest congratulations.

After question period today and after tributes to our veterans, I will be hosting a reception on their behalf in Room 216-N.

Colleagues, I would like you to please hold your applause until I introduce the recipients of the Governor General's Performing Arts awards. When I call your name would you be kind enough to stand: David Cronenberg; Denise Filiatrault; Maver Moore; Louis Quilico; Ginette Reno; Sam Sniderman; and Mario Bernardi. These are our recipients for this year.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

Government Grants

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, over 1,000 transitional jobs fund grants were handed out by this government.

Only one grant in all of Canada was put into a trust fund. That one grant was handled improperly in order to help a failing company in the Prime Minister's riding. It was given unusual treatment that ignored not just treasury board guidelines, but actually broke the law.

Why was this grant in the Prime Minister's riding treated differently than all the other grants in Canada?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, let us be clear here. The appropriate approval process was undertaken in this regard. The department did the due diligence on the opportunity. The stakeholders reviewed the information and recommended investment. No moneys flowed until the approval process was completed.

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the facts say otherwise.

The games that were played with transitional jobs fund money in the Prime Minister's riding border on the bizarre. Millions of dollars were doled out to recipients with a track record of business failure, with shady pasts including criminal records, and with close business and political ties to the Prime Minister. Now add to that an illegal trust fund.

Why is it in the Prime Minister's riding that all the rules and even the law get broken?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, in administering the fund the department chose an inappropriate method. It set up trust funds. In May of this year that inappropriateness was deemed to be true. In June a directive was issued. The trust funds were closed. That has been done. The trust funds have been closed.

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that must be a pretty recent development.

Someone eventually got $1.19 million from the suspect trust fund. That someone was Claude Gauthier who had already purchased land from the Prime Minister's golf course and donated $10,000 to the Prime Minister's election campaign. Soon after the business now being run by Gauthier got the money, it laid off all but 62 of the original 115 employees for a net job loss of 53 jobs.

Since this grant did not create jobs, was it simply a thank you to the Prime Minister's friend?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I have confirmed that there was nothing illegal in any of these transactions.

The approval process was done appropriately. No moneys flowed until the approval process was complete. The inappropriate management of funds was identified. Directives were given to close the trust funds. That has been completed.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, let us just go over this again.

There was only one job creation grant in the entire country that ended up in a trust fund. That trust fund proved to be illegal. It happened in only one place. That was in the Prime Minister's riding. It benefited only one person. That one person was Claude Gauthier, a man who bought $500,000 of the Prime Minister's golf course, who gave $10,000 to the Prime Minister's personal re-election campaign and went on to receive a $6 million CIDA government contract.

The question for the Minister of Human Resources Development is this: Will she now do the right thing and launch a full independent inquiry to see how this mess could have ever happened in the Prime Minister's riding?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, we have done the right thing.

We followed the appropriate approval process. When we discovered that the administrative method to manage the moneys was inappropriate, we closed the trust fund. Most important, there are jobs in the riding. People are working. In a riding of extremely high unemployment, transitional job funds are there to help provide sustainable jobs for Canadians. That is the important point here.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the human resources minister told the House during question period that everything was fine, that there was no problem. Fifteen minutes later she was outside talking to the media saying maybe there was a bit of a problem. In fact, the trust fund was illegal.

Dozens of jobs were lost during this whole fiasco. In the meantime, $1 million was spent, laundered through this trust fund, in order to give it to the only riding in the country, one riding in the entire country, the Prime Minister's.

Taxpayers deserve an answer. When will they get an answer that satisfies them?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad to answer the question.

Nothing inappropriate was done in terms of the administration of the approval process. It was done in an appropriate fashion. When we discovered that the choice of administrative management of the use of trust funds was inappropriate, we directed the department to close the trust fund.

Most important is that Canadians who very desperately needed jobs are working. That is the point of this project.

Budget Surplus

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance is congratulating himself on forecasting a surplus of $95 billion.

Given his cuts to health, education and income support, it is hard to understand what he is happy about.

Will the Minister of Finance admit that, if he were to return the $3.7 billion to the provinces, it would be a huge amount for them, while it is a small part of the surplus for the federal government?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I made it very clear in my economic statement in London that the five year private sector forecasts were only projections.

That having been said, yesterday I told the Bloc Quebecois leader that, last year, the federal government transferred $11.5 billion strictly for health over a five year period. At the same time, Quebec alone received $1.4 billion in equalization payments.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if someone stole $44 from me—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. I hope we are not going to use the word “steal”.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

—and gave me back $11, what he has done is take $33 away from me. This is exactly what the minister has done.

Rather than butting into provincial jurisdictions with new programs that are none of his business, would he not do better to give back to the provinces the money he took from them?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

New programs, Mr. Speaker? New programs like the infrastructure program, which was developed by our government in partnership with the provinces, and which the provinces wanted to have? New programs like Technology Partnerships Canada, under which 33% of the funding goes to Quebec? New programs like the Canadian Foundation for Innovation, which is funding all the research and development in Quebec universities and hospitals?

That is what we are doing.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, while the Prime Minister is asking us to let him take advantage of a $95 billion surplus, the people are suffering because of rapidly deteriorating health systems and educational systems that are crying out for reinvestment of the money to which the Minister of Finance has been helping himself for the past four years.

Why does the Minister of Finance not commit to return to the provinces what has been cut from transfer payments, rather than getting ready to make new expenditures in areas that come under their jurisdiction?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, to give an example of transfer payments, since we became the government, for the Province of Quebec alone there have been in excess of $80 billion in transfer payments, that is equalization payments and the social transfer.

Over and above that, there have been $30 billion paid out in equalization payments since we took office. That is real money.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what the Minister of Finance is not saying is that he took away $33 billion from the provinces' funding for education, health and social assistance.

I am asking him whether he is aware of the havoc he has wrought in the schools, in the hospitals, in the poorest families? Does he realize this? If he does, is he not ashamed?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, as I have just said, last year we transferred $11.5 billion over a five-year period.

The question I am asking the hon. member is this: is the PQ government prepared to give back to the municipalities the money it has cut from them?

Agriculture

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, Reform finally woke up to the farm crisis. Who knows, the Liberals might wake up to farm crisis soon as well.

The reality is that the government listened to Reform, cut our farmers loose and now expects them to compete against the European and U.S. treasuries.

How can the government believe that a tiny fraction of the $1.3 billion needed is anything but an affront to prairie farm families?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, it is new money on top of $900 million that the federal government has put on the table this year. That makes a total of close to $1.1 billion. We are preoccupied; the minister is working very hard to find a solution. We are looking at what will be the net income of these farmers at the end of the process.

There were numbers that came out in anticipation in July, but of course in July they did not know what was to be the crop. By October they knew exactly and it has been a good crop. Now everyone is filing their applications. The program will apply. I hope that the program will be sufficient to meet the needs.