Mr. Speaker, throughout the day we have quoted a number of people from British Columbia who appeared at the hearings last Friday. They did not have the opportunity to appear before the standing committee because, as we are all aware, it was stacked unfavourably. There was no neutrality. The witnesses who wished to appear who were against the Nisga'a deal did not get much of a hearing.
I would like to quote Mr. Harry Bell-Irving, who is a director of the Citizen's Voice. I have taken a few of his thoughts, because I do not have the time to go through them all, but there are some excellent points that I would like to put on the record. He stated:
The Government of Canada was represented by the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs, which stood in a position of trust with respect to the Nisga'a, and accordingly, was in a position of conflict with respect to all other Canadians. In support of this statement, it is interesting to note that the Canadians who take this position most strongly are aboriginal Canadians living in the Nisga'a area, who claim that significant rights belonging to them have been given to the Nisga'a and are protesting.
These aboriginal Canadians are not Nisga'a and they are having their lands taken away.
Mr. Bell-Irving continued:
These protesting aboriginals have already launched court proceedings to try and regain their rights. I submit that the people of Canada have had no true representation at the federal level....With one important exception, mainly amendments introduced dealing with questions as to the certainty of future benefits, the final agreement passed in the British Columbia legislature contained no significant amendment to the agreement in principle tabled in 1996.
Basically it was the original document. Does that sound familiar? It is the same story.
The NDP also resorted to a form of closure and rammed the bill through the legislature with great haste and in contempt of democratic process. The NDP never consulted the people at large as to the parameters of the agreement, and have refused to let the people of British Columbia have the opportunity to vote on a referendum to approve or disapprove the agreement.
The Liberals last week did exactly the same thing in the House. We put forward a motion that the Liberal federal government hold a referendum in British Columbia, and it refused.
I contend that if it were in Ontario or Quebec it would have been an entirely different story. The government simply does not care about the west.
Mr. Bell-Irving continued:
If you are to ask me what is wrong with the Nisga'a agreement, my answer, unfortunately, would be to say a very great deal. It is badly drawn and ambiguous in many places. There are many sub-agreements yet to be finalized. The Nisga'a agreement will create a right to fish based on race. It grants the right to the Nisga'a to make laws which in certain circumstances will be superior to the laws of Canada and British Columbia.
I will repeat that because it is important. It grants the right to the Nisga'a to make laws which in certain circumstances will be superior to the laws of Canada and British Columbia. Is that what Canadians want in a modern treaty?
It provides for Nisga'a citizenship and that only Nisga'a citizens can vote for the Nisga'a government. Think of it; a state within Canada with a separate citizenship in which Canadian citizens cannot vote. Are there to be 60 or more such states within British Columbia? What a disaster for British Columbia, what a disaster for Canada. The federal and provincial governments have said many misleading things in support of the agreement. One of them is that it will create certainty, implying that we should not nitpick about small details and get on with it. I submit that the only certainty the Nisga'a agreement will create is that for years to come there will be uncertainty because various aspects of the agreement will be before the courts.
Already a number of court actions have been commenced....The most serious flaw in the Nisga'a agreement is with respect to the self-government rights granted to the Nisga'a. These rights have been deceitfully described by the federal and British Columbia governments as being similar to local or municipal rights. Yet in 14 different instances, the self-government rights provide and I quote: “In the event of an inconsistency or conflict between the Nisga'a law and a federal or provincial law, the Nisga'a law will prevail to the extent of the inconsistency or conflict”.
Again, is this what we want? I thought we were looking for one law and one country. This adds another layer of government which in my mind and from what I am hearing from the people in my riding is not wanted.
He continued:
The implications to me are very frightening....No business, profession or trade can carry on except under Nisga'a law. As is the case in a number of places in the act, there is the pap that accreditation must be in accordance with the law of the rest of the country, or the law of British Columbia, but that really isn't of significance, (because) the self-government rights are contained in land claims treaty, they will be constitutionalized and can only be amended according to the constitutional process, and it is my understanding that they cannot be amended without the consent of the Nisga'a.
Therefore, it is a closed door. Why would the government set these powers in constitutional concrete without first having a trial period to see if they are working out?
There have been other treaties before the House. For example, the Yukon treaty was before the House in the last parliament and it was not constitutionalized. It was a separate bill. I have to ask why the government is taking this route when the Yukon bill of a few years ago, which was a separate bill, was not constitutionalized. Why would it constitutionalize rights in this treaty? It makes me wonder. I have to ask what is the agenda of the government. Where is it going?
Mr. Bell-Irving continued:
I recommend that the Nisga'a agreement be amended so as to remove self-government rights from the agreement, placing them in a separate agreement, which may be amended from time to time—
I think that is very sound advice. We have done that before in the House. I spent a year going through the Canadian Environmental Protection Act. The old bill stated that it would return to the House every five years. What is wrong with that? That is good legislation. Where is the government going? Exactly in the opposite direction. It is constitutionalizing this. It is closing the door. It will be there forever. We will not be able to amend it.
Another point of great concern are the resources, forestry and fisheries. For example, it was stated by Skeena Cellulose Inc. in the Nisga'a area that should the treaty go forward Skeena Cellulose would sue for $75 million in lost timber resources. Guess what? The province bought Skeena Cellulose. That gets rid of that issue, I suppose, but I am not sure it was a wise use of tax dollars. The fishery is of more concern because the fishery is tied to race. Remember, this is the first of 60 such agreements. In my view, if we carry this forward to 60 agreements there will not be a commercial fishery in Canada. There will not be any fish left to divide. There will be a native commercial fishery, but what about the non-native commercial fishery? We only have so much of the pie to cut up.
There was the Marshall decision which concerned the fishery on the east coast. I am a member of the fisheries committee which was holding hearings last week on the east coast. The Marshall decision, which was clarified by the supreme court, is finally getting through the fog and coming to the middle ground. What is finally coming through with the number of cases that have been before the supreme court is that if we err too far on one side treaty rights will be violated. However, if we err too far on the other side and affect the rights of the people already in the fishery, that will not work either.
The people who are already in fisheries, forestry and other areas who are being pushed out because of these treaties will go to the supreme court, and so they should. We will have years and years of litigation because of this treaty. Again, why? Why could we not start with an open process? There was clearly no open process in British Columbia. It was all closed.
We should have a process that all or most people agree with, have a referendum at the end of it, and then we would have what people want. We are not going in that direction at all. We are going in exactly the opposite direction, creating another layer of government that we do not need. At the end of the day we want laws and rights that apply to each and every one of us, regardless of where we come from.