Madam Speaker, I know that is the strategy of the Reform Party and that is fine if members want to continue to interrupt me because I will get the point across. The point is that what the Reform members are doing in terms of trying to gum up the wheels of government is, frankly, irresponsible. If they would just admit that there is nothing that could satisfy their concerns because they have failed to put those concerns on the record in this place. They stand and talk about the potential impact to our charter. They say it is creating some new level of government. What they do not say is that the Reform Party is inextricably opposed to self-government and self-determination by aboriginal Canadians. It is absolutely the case. They will not say it but that is fundamentally what they are opposed to.
The bill has had provincial hearings and community hearings. We have had federal negotiators who have met for countless hours. We all know it has been an issue for in excess of 100 years. We all know that the Nisga'a people have attempted to negotiate with the province of British Columbia and the country of Canada and in the past they have failed, so what do we do? Do we simply ignore the injustices? Do we simply ignore the heritage of the Nisga'a people in British Columbia, or do we try to move ahead incrementally and put in place a bill and a treaty that will bring some justice to them?
Reform Party members can be obstructionist if they want to. It is unfortunate that this issue has come down to a debate between our philosophy and theirs when in fact what we should be dealing with are the real issues.
When I talk about frivolous or even potentially dangerous amendments, let me give an example of one that the member for Prince George—Bulkley Valley has put forward. Clause 5 of Bill C-9 states, “The Nisga'a final agreement is binding on, and can be relied on by all persons”. The amendment being put forward by the member would delete the words “and can be relied on by”. Therefore the clause would read, “the Nisga'a final agreement is binding on all persons”. The Reformers would delete the words, “and can be relied on by all persons”. Why would they want to do that? What is the impact of that?
Let me give an example. During the negotiations the federal negotiator met with a number of third parties to this particular agreement. Those third parties are companies in forestry, mining, fishing, other resource sectors, utility companies, other business interests, environmental groups, local government, Nass Valley residents who are not part of the Nisga'a people and many other groups with legal interests in this particular agreement. The Reform Party amendment would take away any opportunity for any of those groups to be able to challenge anything within the agreement, perhaps in the Supreme Court of British Columbia, or the Supreme Court of Canada. Why would the Reform Party do that?
Members of the Reform Party stand in this place and say that the rights and the protection of women is not in the Nisga'a agreement. The minister has stood in his place as early as today in question period and clearly stated—I do not know why they cannot grasp this concept—that the rights of Nisga'a women will be protected under provincial laws, the same way as all women in British Columbia and Canada enjoy protection. Why does the Reform Party need to have it specifically addressed in the agreement?
When we put a clause in the bill that says that they can rely on this agreement, by deleting that, if we want to set women up as a specific group, then we are saying that women will not be able to rely on this particular agreement. The forest industry, or the mining industry, or the other groups I have talked about will not be able to rely on it. We have to ask ourselves whether Reform's researchers do not understand the impact because words in this place are so all important.
Words set the future course for the government. Words tell Canadians what the government feels and what the opposition feels. By deleting those few little words in that agreement, we are potentially taking away the rights of so many groups who perhaps are not specifically mentioned in the Nisga'a agreement but who have a substantial interest.
I have another example. This agreement gives Canadians the right to reasonable access to Nisga'a lands. Would the Reform Party's amendment deny that?
In my own province of Ontario, in a place just north of Parry Sound, there was a dispute where the native community blockaded a road and would not allow access to cottagers, who had historic access, to their lakes. If we were to follow and extrapolate the views of the Reform Party, they would lose any protection should that situation occur under the Nisga'a agreement simply because Reform put an amendment that said that those cottagers, to use that example, could not rely on the agreement. They could not rely on their rights as Canadians to cross that particular barricade to access lands that perhaps will be isolated as a result of the redrawing of boundaries through this agreement.
I know many members of the Reform Party. I work with them in committee, whether it is on citizenship and immigration or public accounts. I see the esteemed chair of our public accounts committee in this room and welcome him back after his trials with health problems. We are delighted to see him here. There is a reasonable individual, and there are others over there. Do they not see that by deleting those little words it would take away the rights of all Canadians, interest groups, environmental groups and women to enjoy the access to and benefits of this particular agreement? I think it is a mistake. I can only assume Reformers do not understand it, but it is rather tragic that we have got to this point.
Let me just read another clause, which states:
The Nisga'a Nation releases Canada, British Columbia and all other persons from all claims, demands, actions, or proceedings, of whatever kind, and whether known or unknown, that the Nisga'a Nation ever had, now has or may have in the future, relating to or arising from any act, or omission, before the effective date that may have affected or infringed any aboriginal rights, including aboriginal title, in Canada of the Nisga'a Nation.
Are members suggesting that there is something wrong with that? We are saying that in return for granting new rights and a new treaty to the Nisga'a people, we are asking that everybody else who could be impacted on in any way whatsoever be relieved of that implication. This agreement is historical. It is a travesty that Reformers are throwing out absolutely false information. They should simply support this agreement and let the Nisga'a people enjoy the many benefits that come with it.