Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure for me to rise, despite the late hour, to address report stage of Bill C-49.
At the outset I would say that this is an important piece of legislation on which to have a full and open and debate in the House this evening.
I find it a bit remarkable that so few government members present this evening, at almost 11 p.m., here in beautiful downtown Ottawa, are rising in their places to debate this legislation. It is quite the contrary. What we have constantly heard this evening is heckling from the other side and remarks that we do not know what we are talking about with respect to this legislation. They are the only ones who seem to have a firm grasp on reality, so to speak, or that is what they would lead the people to believe with respect to this particular legislation. But nothing could be further from the truth.
I think the viewing audience at home is rapidly seeing that it is only the people on this side of the House who want to actually debate the legislation. If we could turn up the microphones, I am sure the people at home would hear the rabble over there babbling on rather than rising in their places to actually take part in the debate. I think it is quite appalling for members of parliament to act in such a manner.
I crossed the floor a bit earlier to consult face to face with a few members. I actually encouraged them to take part in the debate, but obviously to no avail.
What is it that the Reform Party, the official opposition, is actually asking for here?
Is it really something so dramatic that we could not actually see Bill C-49 improved with a few amendments? A number of my colleagues have pointed that out. What is it about the Liberal government that it brings forward legislation but does not want to see it changed at all or does not want to see it improved? What is it about these individuals that would have us believe their legislation as brought forward cannot be improved upon? Perhaps the word arrogant would come to mind. I would hesitate to use that word because it might be considered by a few on the other side as inflammatory. However the reality is that anything can be improved.
What would our amendments to Bill C-49 do? They would require the Indian bands to consult with the municipalities. What is so terribly wrong with that? That is the question we must ask. What is so terribly wrong with requiring these 14 Indian bands to consult and negotiate with the municipalities that adjoin the reserve lands or with ensuring that any rules and regulations they would bring down or land codes they would develop would be fair and supported by the neighbouring municipalities and communities with which I am sure they work hard in a fair and open manner?
The concerns being expressed this evening by the official opposition are very real. They are concerns about the expropriation powers contained in Bill C-49. A first nation may expropriate any interest in its nation's land that in the opinion of its council is necessary to community works or for other first nations purposes.
As was pointed out by a number of my colleagues, the opportunity for abuse is there. Far be it for me or any of my colleagues to impugn motive in the sense that any of these 14 bands would do something like that. However some very real concerns are being expressed by people about the sweeping powers contained in Bill C-49. All we are asking for is that there be sufficient checks and balances, perhaps not for the existing band councils but for some band council in the future which may make an inappropriate ruling that dramatically impacts upon tenants or neighbouring communities. The reality is that it could be done in an unfair manner.
We are asking for a simple amendment to ensure consultation takes place and that the neighbouring communities and municipalities are apprised and actively involved in the decisions being made. I do not see what is so terrible about that.
I have some firsthand experience with a very similar ongoing situation in my riding of Prince George—Peace River involving a band on the west side of the Rocky Mountains. The riding of Prince George—Peace River is quite unique in Canada as it is the only riding that is divided by the Rocky Mountain range. On the east side of the divide the native bands are governed under treaty eight. In other words they are treaty Indians. On the west side there are no treaties. The band in my riding is McLeod Lake. It has tried for years and years to adhere to treaty eight. It wants to come under treaty eight. It has been somewhat successful over the last while with its negotiations and it appears they will be finalized.
As part and parcel of that ongoing agreement we find that a new reserve will be established along with reserve lands. I must say at this point that I am quite opposed to establishing additional reserves in Canada. I think that the whole reserve system has been an abysmal failure from the very beginning. Yet we see this government continuing down that road of setting up more reserves. I have to question in all sincerity the wisdom in doing such a thing.
At any rate, what is taking place is that they want to have some reserve land set aside when this Indian band, the McLeod Lake band adheres to treaty 8, in the small logging community of Bear Lake which is on the Hart highway just north of the city of Prince George. The residents of Bear Lake have expressed a lot of concern about this. They have no problem whatsoever with the Indian people being granted certain lands that are adjacent or in their community if it is on a fee simple basis and if they end up being treated identically, equally and equitably as all the other residents of Bear Lake.
On the surface I would not say that is such a remarkable thing to ask for, that everyone be treated equally. They would welcome Indian people to have those lots, to have their residence there with all the other residents of Bear Lake. But they have some very serious concerns when without adequate consultation the federal government and the provincial government with their negotiators negotiate with Indian band and arbitrarily decide that they are going to set up a reserve at Bear Lake and this will be part of the land settlement when the McLeod Lake band adheres to treaty 8.
I know that this is outside the scope of this bill and the amendments we are discussing. I wanted to point out to hon. members on both sides of the House what happens when inadequate consultation takes place. That is what we are discussing. That is the essence of the amendments put forward by the official opposition. We are merely asking the government to see fit to amend Bill C-49 so that consultation is a requirement and that the bands themselves are going to have to consult with the municipalities in the neighbouring communities to ensure that fairness and equity are in place when they develop their land codes.