Yes, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the chance to discuss the motion before us concerning the tax status of employer provided transit passes.
On the surface this initiative would seem destined to digress into what is an all too familiar confrontation, to which the previous speaker alluded, between the environment and the economy. Framed in those narrow terms I know how that story will end, but I honestly feel that this issue has the potential to encourage needed debate on a number of important issues. We have heard that already this morning in previous speeches.
The first issue debate around this point raises is the notion of costs. I have seen a number of reports both in Canada and the United States that outline the financial impacts of a whole variety of transit benefit programs. I was struck by what was not included in the cost benefit analysis. Things such as the health costs associated with increasingly poor air quality are not included in the calculation of whether this is a good or bad idea.
There are remedial costs associated with cleaning up the air. We will have to do it sooner or later and somebody will have to pay for it. There is lost productivity associated with traffic gridlock. One of the previous speakers used a calculation that 100 cars equal two buses. If we can put more people on buses then people will spend less time in traffic jams and more time engaged in the productive activities they are hired and paid to do. There are the costs associated with the construction and maintenance of the infrastructure needed to support the number of cars on the highways and bridges.
I am not saying for a minute that including these costs would cause the equation to lean in one direction or another, but I am saying they are rather conspicuous by their absence. The fact that some of these costs are difficult to quantify should not be rationale for ignoring them completely.
These types of costs transcend not only ministries in the federal government. They also transcend levels of government. It is important to remember there is only one taxpayer in the country. We are fooling ourselves if we think that over time the costs we are not calculating will simply go away. The Sydney Tar Ponds are a $2 billion shrine to that kind of nonsensical thinking. Sooner or later these costs have to be captured and have to be paid.
To make matters worse, we are not only passing these costs on to taxpayers that had no share in any benefits these initiatives might have realized, but we are in some cases passing these costs on to our children, our grandchildren and our great-grandchildren. Those kinds of debts and leaving that kind of legacy of debt are extremely hard to justify on any level.
The challenge we face is to meet our own needs without compromising the capacity of future generations to meet their needs. To that end I think government has a definite role in the identification, the calculation and the verification of the full costs and benefits of activities and in the development of policies that allocate these costs appropriately.
The impact on the natural and human resources of the nation need to be taken into account for any decisions we make. This motion also brings into question the fundamental concept of what is the role of the tax system. To put it bluntly this initiative goes against the grain. Not only would a tax exemption reduce tax revenues to the government, but increased mass transit ridership would also reduce gasoline sales, a commodity that is also a source of tax revenue. It does illustrate the role the tax system can play in encouraging certain behaviours.
Governments seem to spend a great deal of time and effort developing regulatory regimes and trying to reinforce corporate behaviours that run directly counter to what the tax system encourages them to do. Not only are command and control approaches expensive. They are all too often totally ineffective.
We need to look at fiscal policies that encourage sustainable behaviours. Spending in environmental areas should look and act like investments, not costs.
Ideally we need a tax system that places taxes on the things we want less of and exemptions for activities that result in the things we want more of. This motion is certainly attempting to do just that.
I congratulate the hon. member for bringing this motion to the House. I draw the attention of all members to the wording of the motion; that we consider this action is hardly radical. I would be the first to admit that this action is not without repercussions. The discussion which would result in a detailed examination of those factors would not only be a valuable exercise in and of itself, but it would also serve to send a very clear and positive message to Canadians that we not only understand but are prepared to address the challenges we face as we shift to support the core and non-partisan value of sustainability.