House of Commons Hansard #187 of the 36th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was million.

Topics

The BudgetGovernment Orders

10:35 a.m.

Reform

Randy White Reform Langley—Abbotsford, BC

Mr. Speaker, if members on the other side bothered to listen, our tax plan was $26 billion in tax relief. The difference is that when we talk, they are not listening.

Something else that was said here is important to note. This is not just about budgets in the House of Commons. When we talk about pepper spray, the APEC hearings and those kinds of issues, the government lost a minister over that issue. That was an important issue.

Notwithstanding the comments, the member has to understand, and I know it is difficult, that there is more to the House of Commons than just one item. The Liberals' record on taxes has been abysmal. Their affront on young people in Vancouver at the APEC hearings has been unacceptable. There are more issues here than just one but it will take another day for the member to gravitate to that kind of problem.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

10:40 a.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Mr. Speaker, the member talked about the brain drain. I think it is an important debate this House should have.

If the member would listen to his own words, he talked about his own son who is drawn away for what he referred to as big bucks. That is one of things we found on the finance committee in looking at this. When someone goes away to get paid a higher salary, no amount of tax relief will change that. It has to do with the onus of the responsibility of business and industry being able to compete globally for the best talent in the world.

Why did the member refer to Canada's tax rate at 50%? He will know that someone making $30,000 a year pays a tax rate of 25%. He will know that somebody who makes $60,000 only pays a tax rate of 30% and someone who makes $90,000 only pays a 40% effective tax rate—

The BudgetGovernment Orders

10:40 a.m.

The Deputy Speaker

The hon. member for Langley—Abbotsford.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

10:40 a.m.

Reform

Randy White Reform Langley—Abbotsford, BC

Mr. Speaker, we cannot get into some of these arguments because their thick skulls do not understand. What I do understand is that there is a 4.3% unemployment rate in the United States. They have to pay a premium in the United States to get Canadian workers.

If we had that kind of record in Canada, maybe we would be a little better off but the government is too damned fast in raising taxes. That is the problem. The government is slow if not totally inefficient on paying debt but the Liberals do not understand it.

What can we say? The only real answer is to get rid of this government and then manage it on a more efficient basis.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

10:40 a.m.

Peterborough Ontario

Liberal

Peter Adams LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to bring some optimism to this debate on what has been described as our health care budget.

I will be splitting my time with the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Health.

I am here in my capacity as chair of the government caucus on post-secondary education and research. Since 1994 it has been working with members, such as the member from Fredericton who is here today, and others who will be speaking in this debate, on behalf of students, universities, colleges, researchers in hospitals, institutes and schools across Canada.

In discussing this health care budget I will begin by describing one of the highlights of my life. It was a conversation I and two or three other people had 19 years ago with Terry Fox. Terry had completed his 42 klicks for the day. He came into Peterborough and was talking to us about what he was doing.

Someone asked him why he was raising money for cancer research. At that time in Peterborough we had problems with cancer care, driving people a long way to get treatment and that kind of thing. Of course Terry had no idea of the vast amounts of money that would eventually be raised in his name, but Terry said he had decided that the money should go to cancer research. He had been a patient and the care had been there for him, and even though perhaps there should be some improvements to it, he knew that if there was no research in the future there would be people just like him. They might get good care but they would never be cured, nor would their disease ever be prevented. Terry Fox deliberately channelled the money he raised into cancer research.

The cancer societies have been in a fortunate situation in Canada. All of us every April go out and raise money for cancer and that goes to care. And many of us participate in the Terry Fox runs, and that money goes for research.

Research is the foundation of any modern health care system. It is not an extra, it is not some sort of a luxury. It is an integral part of any efficient, modern health care system. In this health care budget we were very fortunate with the financial circumstances that we were able to transfer more than $11 billion to the provinces for health care in general for the operation of hospitals, clinics, long term care facilities, children's health centres, home care, the prevention and promotion of health care and that kind of thing. We were able to devote $11 billion in that direction. At the same time, something that has been going on since 1994, we were able to devote funds specifically for health care research.

When medicare was first introduced the focus was on curing illness with doctors and hospitals. Now good health care is as much about preventing illness as it is about curing it. Research generates new insights into human biology and disease processes. It illuminates the factors that affect the health of people in communities. It leads to the discovery of new cures, to the discovery of medical technologies and procedures and it helps us to tailor the health care system to the needs of Canadians.

This budget invests close to $1.4 billion specifically for improving information systems, promoting health related research and innovation, for research into improving first nations and Inuit health services and for preventing health problems. This will ensure that our doctors, nurses, administrators and others have the most up to date knowledge, information, treatments and cures at their fingertips. It will also allow them to innovate and learn from each other to the benefit of all Canadians.

These are important investments that will improve Canada's health care system in the years ahead. The decision to invest in both what we think of as direct care and in research at the same time was the only decision that a responsible government could have made.

One of the most important research announcements in the budget was the $240 million investment in the new Canadian institutes of health research, the CIHR. These institutes will bring together the best researchers and support groups from across Canada in areas such as aging, arthritis, women's health, cancer and heart disease.

Last year our government caucus on post-secondary education was delighted to meet several times with Dr. Henry Friesen, president of the Medical Research Council and with the presidents of the other granting councils to discuss this new institute's concept. Dr. Friesen explained that health research has expanded beyond its traditional boundaries of simple medical research. The CIHR will offer a modern framework to bring together all fields of health research. It will build on the research base of our universities, health and research centres, teaching hospitals, federal and provincial governments, and voluntary and private sectors by supporting and linking researchers in new ways.

In the future research teams representing many disciplines, not just medical, will be linked by institutes structured along thematic lines to create a powerful across Canada network of expertise in areas of importance to us all. These institutes will not be centralized bricks and mortar facilities. Instead they will support and link researchers and support groups located in universities, hospitals and other research centres in communities all across Canada.

It is very interesting today in modern times to think about what health research is. We need engineers, not doctors, to make new joints like elbows, wrists, hips and so on. We need chemists to develop new drugs, not just medical doctors.

We need telecommunication specialists to develop new techniques so that x-rays and other medical records can be transmitted across the country to be interpreted by the best available people. We need telecommunication experts so that doctors can diagnose patients who are located thousands of kilometres away. We need social scientists to track the success and failure rates of various procedures. We need people to study the best ways of delivering health care in our communities, social scientists, statisticians, people of that type.

Modern health care would not be possible without a broad based, basic research system across all disciplines. That system requires an education system to bring up the people who can operate and staff it, an accessible, effective education system.

In this health care budget the federal government, in addition to the specific health care items which involve huge sums of money, has once again been able to invest in fundamental research and education across Canada. This is something that has been going on from the very first days of this government.

The funding of the granting councils, the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council, the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council as well as the Medical Research Council, was once again increased. So was the funding to the National Research Council and the funding to the new Canada Foundation for Innovation which is providing infrastructure for research in communities all across Canada.

To give an example of the diversity of research which is necessary to support a really effective health care system, this time in the budget there was a fund provided for research into various aspects of nursing. This fund is an endowment to support a 10 year nursing research program. This new research initiative will deal with the changing roles and needs of nursing. This is so important in all our health institutions.

This fund will be administered by the Canadian Health Services Research Foundation, a partner to the institutes I mentioned. This research is an example of focusing on basic health care, the care that nurses provide, helping to provide it in the most effective way.

I would like to have seen more support for the SSHRC, for the NRC and for northern research but the momentum of supporting basic research in this country has continued in this budget and I am delighted to see it. I join Nobel Laureate Dr. Michael Smith who said: “This budget was a tremendous vote of confidence in the research community of Canada. This is the best federal budget I've seen in support of academic research”.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

10:50 a.m.

Reform

Val Meredith Reform South Surrey—White Rock—Langley, BC

Mr. Speaker, I will be very brief. My question to the hon. member is if the Liberal government is so supportive of Canada's health care system and sees it as a top priority, why has it been part of the cut from 50% funding promised when Canada health care came into effect down to 15%?

If the government believes so much that health care is a priority, why did it put $2.5 billion into the millennium scholarship fund which will affect only 6% of post-graduate students and will not see any benefit until the year 2000? If health care was such a priority, why did it do that?

The BudgetGovernment Orders

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

Peter Adams Liberal Peterborough, ON

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for her questions. I listened to previous negative comments from the other side of the House that talked about brain drain and now we hear the millennium scholarship mentioned.

I am talking here about a health care system now and for the future. Where was the support of the Reform Party for the millennium scholarship funds which are grants, the first grants to Canadian students in many decades? Where was the Reform Party's wholehearted support for the RESPs, the registered education saving plans, which again include grants for lower and middle income and high income people so they can support their children in education?

Where is Reform support, talking about brain drain, for the CFI, the Canada Foundation for Innovation, for the increases in the granting councils which I have just mentioned? Where is the support for the NRC? Where was the support for SchoolNet which has put all of our elementary schools and all high schools in Canada way ahead of the United States on the Internet?

That is the support our young people need. Our young people need the millennium scholarships. Here are hundreds of thousands of effective grants to get our young people into good schools, colleges and universities so that they can support the health care system that I was discussing and not the tax system they are discussing.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

Progressive Conservative

Rick Borotsik Progressive Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB

Mr. Speaker, it is rather interesting to see the kind of spin the government can place on this component of the budget. I speak of health care.

I listened to the hon. member. I would ask him if he would not admit to the House today that even with the billions of dollars placed back into health care it will simply bring health care funding up to 1995 levels.

I listened with a great deal of interest to the research and development aspect the member took with respect to health care. Is he aware that the two major cost drivers in health care today are technology and inflation?

If we are going back simply to 1995 levels, if we cannot afford technology and it cannot be put into place, how will that help the health care system?

The BudgetGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

Liberal

Peter Adams Liberal Peterborough, ON

Mr. Speaker, as I tried to point out, this budget is not something that has just appeared. It is not off the wall. This budget is the culmination of a series of budgets we have had in which our main concern has been to struggle with the problem that was left by the Progressive Conservative Party.

We came in. We did not ask for it but there was a deficit of $42 billion. We were borrowing almost a $1 billion a week at that time. From the very first year, this government started investing in the things I was describing, SchoolNet, health care for women, pre-natal and post-natal health care and so on.

This budget is a further step, one more step forward to making Canada an even greater place in the 21st century.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

Reform

Monte Solberg Reform Medicine Hat, AB

Mr. Speaker, I only have time for a short question. We recently had people before the finance committee who were extraordinarily critical of the high tax levels in Canada because they were driving young graduates out of this country.

Why has this government completely failed to do anything about high taxes so that we can keep those people in Canada?

The BudgetGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

Liberal

Peter Adams Liberal Peterborough, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is not my place to discuss the substantial tax cuts in this and previous budgets.

At the same time we are getting the economy in shape and stimulating job creation and so on, it is the federal government's responsibility, and fortunately for us the Reform Party will never have that responsibility, to build the systems and structures today that will make Canada greater and that will help our young people today so that they can help us when we are old.

The negativism from that side is of great concern to me. Let us have some optimism here.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

Thornhill Ontario

Liberal

Elinor Caplan LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Health

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to be here this morning to speak about the budget and the number one issue on the minds of Canadians, the future of health care. It is an issue that is very dear to my heart and one that I can speak of from a unique vantage point.

As a former provincial minister of health, I saw firsthand the challenges the provinces face in providing quality health care under difficult financial circumstances. As Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Health, I have seen health care challenges from the national perspective.

I am particularly pleased to be speaking at this time when the future of medicare has never been brighter, a time when the federal government is in a strong financial position, a time when federal dollars will be making a positive difference in the accessibility of quality health care in this country.

Through sound fiscal management, a downward trend toward lower taxes, the government's focus on reducing the debt and through a significant investment in research and development, Canada is moving forward. This budget will make a real difference in health and health care in this country.

There was a time not long ago when babies were born at home, not by choice but because their families could not afford to go to the doctor. Often care was not sought until it was too late to save a patient. People died from measles, mumps and chicken pox because there was no vaccine to prevent or to respond to an outbreak.

It is good to remember those times. We are reminded of how fragile the human condition is and of the importance of protecting Canadian medicare, which protects all of us.

The conditions that I described did not just happen in the middle ages or even at the turn of the century. I am talking about this century, the fifties and the early sixties, before Tommy Douglas advocated the first provincial medicare plan, before the Liberal government in Ottawa established medicare to serve all Canadians regardless of their income or their postal code.

Fifty years ago my husband lost his mother to breast cancer. My father-in-law lost not only his wife but his business too. Yes, it cost him dearly.

We only have to look south of the border to see what kind of system we could have had: one for the rich, another for the poor and no access for many. We only have to ask Canadians who have gone south without extra medical coverage, some who have had to remortgage their homes or take out bank loans because a loved one was in a car accident or suffered a heart attack while on vacation.

Yes, we Canadians have taken a lot for granted. We have expected that a person would get a job when they turned 18 and would retire from that same job when they turned 65, that there would always be clean air and clean water and that there would always be a doctor, a nurse or a hospital nearby when we needed care. To that extent we have been fortunate in Canada. As the United Nations reminds us, we live in a country that for the sixth consecutive year has ranked number one in the world as the best place to live.

However, in the last decade we have learned a few lessons. We cannot live on borrowed money forever. We have learned that the resources of this country are not limitless. Perhaps the greatest lesson that we have learned is one of individual responsibility, which ironically is the theme that has been echoed through the great works of the early philosophers. Accepting personal responsibility is a hard lesson. But learning responsibility has been important to all of us; to learn to appreciate the things we have and what is most important to us, setting priorities.

There is an old saying which people say whenever they are down or whenever they are broke: “At least you have your health”. Aside from their families, I believe what Canadians cherish the most is their health. They also cherish the quality of health care which they have come to rely on.

A mother wants to know that there is a doctor in the emergency room when she brings her sick baby to the hospital. A heart patient wants to know that there is an operating room available 24 hours a day. A family wants to know that their elderly mother will have nursing home care when she is too ill, too frail to look after herself, but wants to remain as independent as possible for as long as possible.

Our government understands. We understand the importance of not just preserving medicare, but continuing to make it better. That is going to take more than just money. That is why the Liberal government has invested another $11.5 billion in health care over the next five years. We as a government have a responsibility to the people of Canada today and in the future.

Part of that responsibility has been to put our own fiscal house in order and to eliminate the deficit. We know that in times past it has been very difficult because of that deficit for the government to be able to act on behalf of Canadians, to put this country's social programs on a firm fiscal foundation. Without that foundation, given the challenges of change, Canadian health care was seen as a house of cards just waiting for a strong wind to make it collapse.

Today the future is bright. As we go forward into the future we must never forget the lessons we have learned from the past. We have learned to stop treating medicare like an illness and hopefully we will start treating it like a patient. Treating it like an illness meant that we lurched from crisis to crisis, never certain of what the future would hold. Ensuring the future of medicare means that we needed to stop using band-aid solutions. We needed to look at the overall health of medicare. We needed to listen to experts. We wanted to listen to Canadians. Then we had to establish priorities for the future.

That is why our government established the National Forum on Health. That is why we developed a plan for the future. The cornerstone of that plan is the recognition that the provinces have their job to do in renewing and strengthening the delivery of services. To do that job successfully they need the security of long term, stable funding from the federal government.

We agreed to provide that guaranteed funding, $11.5 billion for medicare over a five year period. That is the largest health transfer payment to the provinces in the past two decades. I want to emphasize that not even five years ago was this kind of investment possible. It is possible today because the Liberal government made the hard choices over the last five years and took our fiscal responsibility very seriously. Now we are able to look to the future with confidence.

People are already seeing the differences of additional funding and what that is making happen in the provinces. The provinces which have the responsibility for service delivery are already announcing the re-opening of emergency wards and the provision of other services which are necessary to secure the health of Canadians everywhere.

The federal government has a responsibility beyond providing money. Our responsibility goes beyond just giving the provinces money and we are taking those responsibilities very seriously.

A key role the federal government plays nationally is working with our partners to prevent and promote good health. That means making health information available to Canadians to help them make the right choices, to inform people, especially our youth, about the hazards of smoking, drinking and taking drugs, and to help young families make healthful choices.

This budget will help improve the overall health of Canadians, particularly Canadians who fall through the cracks because we are taking an early intervention approach. Rather than waiting to treat, we are intervening to prevent. We are being proactive. We are assisting pregnant women. We are also dealing with issues like contaminated foods before they happen. We are investing money to strengthen the federal food safety program. Rather than just spending money after the fact to treat environmental illnesses, we are being proactive. We are providing management for the control of toxic substances. Rather than ignoring the needs of rural Canadians, we are looking at ways to improve services for rural and remote communities. We want to use Tele-health and the new technologies that are available.

Three hundred and twenty-eight million dollars is available to further develop health information systems that will link together all of those who provide care through national networks. In these ways the Liberal government is showing leadership in working with the provinces to re-invent medicare, with an emphasis on appropriately treating the patient, not just the disease.

There is much more to do. I believe that Canadian medicare must adopt an accountable, integrated approach to health care, one which will bring together hospital resources with all other health services to meet the needs of our communities. Canadian medical and scientific professionals must share best practices and focus on outcomes.

We must move toward a system that breaks down the silos and puts an end, once and for all, to the turf wars that have plagued medicare in the past.

Our aim as we move forward into this new era is to work together and to empower ordinary Canadians. Today medicare in Canada is stronger than ever thanks to the commitment, in writing, of provincial governments across this country. We are determined to create a real system that will be there for all Canadians when they need it. This budget will help to do that.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Reform

Gurmant Grewal Reform Surrey Central, BC

Mr. Speaker, I have been listening to this debate for some time. The Liberal government has destroyed our health care system. It has cut $24 billion from health care spending since 1993. When the Canada Health Act came into existence the federal government agreed to share 50% of the cost with the provinces. It has now dropped to 15%.

The Liberal government should apologize to Canadians for causing the health care system to be in the shape it is today.

Canadians now know that it is going to take many years to rebuild our health care system which was destroyed by this government.

The Canadian government has put the health care system in this position. Now it is spending millions of dollars of taxpayers' money in a damage control campaign. The finance minister—

The BudgetGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)

The parliamentary secretary has one minute to respond.

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11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Elinor Caplan Liberal Thornhill, ON

Mr. Speaker, the big difference between the Liberal Party and the Reform Party is that we support the principles of the Canada Health Act. We say no to American style medicine and no to user fees.

I humbly stand today in this House of Commons, the same House of Commons that voted unanimously to make the Canada Health Act a reality in this country. I stand proudly as the member of parliament for Thornhill, but also as an individual who has watched this nation build an internationally acclaimed medicare system for all of us. I have watched the growing pains. I have watched it falter. But together, with this budget and with the support of all Canadians, we can assure that Canadian style medicare will be there for future generations.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

Reform

Monte Solberg Reform Medicine Hat, AB

Mr. Speaker, I wonder how proud the member is of the fact that 200,000 Canadians are on waiting lists for health care today. How proud is she of the fact that 1,400 doctors have left Canada in the last two years? I wonder how proud is she—and this is a little ironic given the rhetoric we have heard—of the fact that so many desperate Canadians who cannot get timely health care are being forced to go to the United States to seek treatment. Under this government equal access does not mean equal access to treatment, it means equal access to a waiting list. How proud is the member of those facts that have been created by her government?

The BudgetGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Elinor Caplan Liberal Thornhill, ON

Mr. Speaker, everyone realizes that there are enormous challenges for change. But the one thing that we believe in and that we stand for is that we can work together to ensure that Canadians have timely access to quality health care. That is what distinguishes us from the Reform Party.

The Reform Party's rhetoric does not match its policies. It would scrap the Canada Health Act. It would bring in user fees and American style medicine. This party says no. We believe that by working together we can solve the problems.

Internationally all countries are facing problems. Nobody has found the perfect answer. We are looking around the world and we are working together to ensure that Canadian health care will be there for Canadians when they need it. The provinces, which have the responsibility for the delivery of services, have committed to work together and to use their technologies to create a more integrated and accountable—

The BudgetGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)

The hon. member for Acadie—Bathurst.

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11:10 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Mr. Speaker, it is pretty hard for me to understand what is going on in the House and across the country. From 1995 to 1998 the federal government cut $22 billion from transfers to the provinces. In the next five years it will invest $12.5 billion. That is half the amount it cut and it will take five years to do it. How can she say that we are in the best position we have ever been in when our parents and our children, when they go to the hospital, are left in the hallways instead of being given a bed? As a Canadian, how could she be proud of that?

The BudgetGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Elinor Caplan Liberal Thornhill, ON

Mr. Speaker, the member opposite is factually incorrect. With this budget the health portion of the Canada health and social transfer will be fully restored. That will also give predictable and stable funding to the provinces which deliver those services.

When this government took office it faced a $42 billion deficit and a debt that was out of control. Today the debt and the debt to GDP ratio are on a downward trend. The tax burden is being reduced, particularly for the neediest. Also we have been able to secure social programs. This makes the single largest commitment to Canadian medicare. Transfers of $11.5 billion over five years, with $3.5 billion immediately to help the provinces solve their problems, is the single largest commitment in over two decades. That is a real commitment and those are the facts.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

11:15 a.m.

Bloc

Odina Desrochers Bloc Lotbinière, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased, as a Bloc Quebecois member, and as the sovereignist member for Lotbinière in particular, to speak today in this debate on the federal Ontario Liberal budget.

The Paul Martin budget of last February 16 was a slap in the face to the people of Quebec, a painful one. It is a purely political budget, as Alain Dubuc, editorial writer for La Presse , wrote the day after what I would call the worst possible social injustice toward the Quebec people.

Alain Dubuc is, as hon. members know, not the most sovereignist editorial writer at La Presse . He was, however, very clear in describing it as follows “The budget tabled by the Canadian Minister of Finance is purely political”.

He went on to say “The budgetary approach in this sixth Martin budget wallowed in the same quagmire as most actions by the Chrétien government, the difficulty of making choices and setting priorities, the lack of focus, concern with the short term, and political calculation”.

What Mr. Dubuc neglected to say is that this government has already made up its mind, and that its choice is to promote a unitary country, a centralizing country, which has been concentrating its efforts ever since October 1995 on weakening Quebec.

Quebec is in mourning. Our unemployed are weeping. Our sick people are in despair, and the middle class is up in arms against the way this government is acting.

Ontario, however, is jubilant, with Mike Harris heading things up, because he got the fine sum of $1 billion out of this government under the social union framework agreement, a centralizing union that skims off the provinces' powers, which they have enjoyed since the start of Confederation.

This centralizing union suits to a “T” the current Prime Minister, who, in the course of his career, has become an expert in reneging on his word and his signature.

The masks of the Minister of Finance, the Minister of Health and the Prime Minister fell on February 16. The Liberal plot was revealed, it was a plot against Quebec.

The meeting on February 4 was another example of the repeated offensives by the Prime Minister against Quebec. We will recall the patriation of the Constitution in 1982 and the Meech Lake accord, which was scuttled by this politician, a loyal apostle of the Trudeauism of the 1970s. And what about the failed supreme court attempt by the famous chameleon Guy Bertrand.

Before going on about the budget, I would like to talk about the fine parade of federal ministers in Quebec last week. This government was so aware that this budget concerned Quebeckers that last week it sent two fake Santas in red suits. The people of Quebec could see, despite the costumes, that what was coming out of the mouths of these fake Santas was false.

Members should imagine the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs trying to talk about figures. Just as here in the House, no one understood him. And the Minister of Finance had the gall to say that his budget was transparent. Something slipped his mind when he came to meet Quebeckers last week and that something was Bill C-28. Fine little bit of tampering to protect his shipping business. In particular, he forgot to say how he was robbing the employment insurance fund. There is a word for that, but I cannot say it.

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11:15 a.m.

Bloc

Bernard Bigras Bloc Rosemont, QC

You can say it is pillage.

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11:15 a.m.

Bloc

Odina Desrochers Bloc Lotbinière, QC

Yes, indeed.

On February 19, in Plessisville, which is located in my riding, the Minister of Human Resources Development hastily met the local media. He did not meet the unemployed, but the media. The minister clearly remembered his experience of last year, when he tried to make fun of the BC mine workers, in Thetford Mines.

Let us talk about what the Liberals have done to help Quebec's health sector. They just approved the establishment of a medical police whose sole purpose will be to spy on our health system and to recommend to federal Liberals a more centralizing strategy, in order to bring Quebec's health sector under federal control.

As for employment insurance or, rather, poverty insurance, only 36% of those who contributed now qualify for benefits. Three out of every four young people have been excluded, while seasonal workers remain the most affected.

The result of this policy is that people are leaving some of Quebec's most scenic regions. Members should look at what is happening in the Gaspé and North Shore areas. The Bloc Quebecois has made numerous appeals in this House, urging the government to correct the flaws of the employment insurance reform. What did the Minister of Finance announce to the unemployed? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. The minister continues to pump money out of the employment insurance surpluses and he keeps asking more from his servant, the Minister of Human Resources Development.

The latter answered the call by setting up a harassment scheme designed to target Quebec's unemployed. This quest to get money from the jobless is taking place in the Quebec riding of Lotbinière, where the minister went and got $6 million. In Quebec, over a period of just eight months, the minister got $144 million, all this for the benefit of beautiful Ontario, and also to provide money for the federal government, so that it can interfere in areas of provincial jurisdiction. This is the reality.

Let us take a look at the social and economic impacts of that reform. A very good study done by the Canadian Labour Congress shows that, from 1993 to 1997, my riding suffered a shortfall of $12 million. This hurts regional development and it results in people leaving the regions.

The Minister of Human Resources Development has the nerve to keep telling us, in the House, that the employment insurance reform is fair and equitable for Quebeckers.

I have a suggestion. From now on, so as to better describe what he has been doing since he was first appointed, the minister should call himself not the Minister of Human Resources Development, but the minister of human misery development. Unemployment is a cash cow for the Liberal government, true or false?

The BudgetGovernment Orders

11:20 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

True.

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11:20 a.m.

Bloc

Odina Desrochers Bloc Lotbinière, QC

In the 1999 budget, the government confirms that it misappropriated the $7 billion EI surplus in 1998-99 and that it intends to repeat the performance with the anticipated $5 billion surplus in 1999-2000. This surplus is still being underestimated.

In his 1998 report, the chief actuary, who is a credible individual, far more so than the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Human Resources Development—