Madam Speaker, I will be sharing my time with my colleague from Nanaimo—Cowichan.
I rise again to speak on Bill C-65, the renewal of equalization payments. I have been sitting here all day listening to government speakers on this debate. What I have found is that they have refused to answer the questions that my colleagues and I have put to them throughout this debate.
We have listed our concerns point by point on this bill in reference to equalization payments. What we are hearing from the government side is the usual status quo or do nothing approach this government is becoming famous for.
The concept of equalization is not under challenge. We all understand and agree with the concept that Canadians are willing to share with their fellow citizens their good fortunes.
We have concerns and we have been saying them throughout this debate. Let us start with what the auditor general has been saying. In the auditor general's 1997 review he said that parliament is presented with the legislative proposals any time from a few months to a few weeks before an approval is required.
What is a problem is that parliament is not given adequate time to review this legislation. What is even more of a concern is that equalization makes up 8% of of all federal spending. We as custodians of taxpayer dollars need to debate the effectiveness of all legislation where taxpayer dollars are involved.
Here we have a program in front of us that uses 8% of all federal program spending and what do we get? We get probably three business days' notice or maybe a month's notice to look at this program. That is not transparency or accountability.
Bill C-65 from our point of view is an extremely flawed process. All my colleagues have been talking about their concerns. I was quite surprised to see the Conservatives showing the same concerns that we have despite the fact that at one point they formed the government and did not do much about this program. They have pointed out, as we have, the flaws in the legislation, the problems with this bill.
Let us talk a little about what concerns us, the formula. They have not told us what the formula is. We do not understand this formula. Who understands this formula, by the way? It is a formula that is supposed to create equality in Canada. That is funny, a formula that is supposed to create equality and members of parliament cannot even understand how it is calculated.
My colleague from the NDP this morning said he tried to look at the formula and gave up. We have a formula that nobody understands and it is now becoming even more complicated.
This is a question I am asking the government. Government MPs have been standing up and defending this equalization program with all its greatness, as they say, but they themselves do not understand it. How can they stand up and defend an expenditure when they do not know how it is calculated? This is a weird concept.
Government MPs have given the power to the bureaucrats again. It is the bureaucrats who are running the expenditure, not the House of Commons, not the elected members here. That is what is coming from that side and it makes me concerned and a little sad.
The auditor general has also talked about the formula and has said that he would like this thing to be addressed. The department said it would address the formula issue. It is quite interesting that even the bureaucrats have been struggling with this for 30 years and have had no success. It is becoming a guessing game. This is a cause of concern for everybody because what has the formula created? It has created inequality.
We now have seven provinces that we consider have nots. We have three have provinces. As my colleague this morning pointed out, some of the have not provinces have far more extensive social programs for their citizens than the have provinces, and I applaud them for that, yet they are called the have not provinces. In the have not provinces some of the programs are far superior. Where is this equality?
The whole formula issue was in a study done by Queen's University.
It took only two years to use the formula. After that it was a band-aid solution. The rest of the time the system is driven by various bells and whistles, which means that it is not addressing the real issue. It is at the whim of bureaucrats or at the whim of politicians.
As an example, Newfoundland Premier Tobin's expected deficit budget indicated that it was subject to manipulation. By whom? By bureaucrats and by politicians. Members of parliament who are supposedly the custodians of taxpayers money are unable and cannot find out how 8% of federal spending was spent.
This concept is justified by a very noble statement that services should be equal throughout Canada. It is driven by that statement and that is all it is driven by. After that it is lost in the middle of bureaucracy, in the maze of manipulation and inequality. There is something seriously wrong with the whole concept. That is what my party is challenging, not the noble concept of equalization.
Where are transparency and accountability? As I mentioned, members of parliament see in the budget document that so much money has gone to the have not provinces from the have provinces. It is a very strange concept, as my colleague pointed out, that seven provinces are have not provinces and three provinces are have provinces in a country that has the best standard of living in the world.
There is no accountability. What concerns me is that it is for the next five years. Perhaps government members have a problem. I think that is why they have been ramming through the bill to meet some deadline. They could not come up with a proper review of the formula, but they could have extended it for six months while a parliamentary committee looked into the whole process. All members who have given speeches in the House are in agreement with the concept, so I would not see any problem with all parties studying the issue for the next six months.