Debates of April 14th, 1999

Kosovo

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is one thing to take note. How about we take a vote? That is what Canadians are looking forward to right now. All of us need to band together to make sure that we are not just taking note of something. We are at war. We need a vote in this parliament and the minister needs it so strongly for that confidence to move forward.

We also just heard this morning that a spokesman at NATO in Brussels has announced that he wants more planes to come from Canada. Why is it that Canadians will find out from a NATO spokesman in Brussels about increasing escalation of military equipment and forces from Canada? Why would that be?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, there is full consultation on a daily basis with all the partners in NATO. All 19 of us are constantly being consulted.

Additional aircraft are needed because we want to intensify this campaign to stop the ethnic cleansing in Kosovo. Additional aircraft are being provided by many countries and Canada is also considering it.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on Monday we had a debate on the situation in Kosovo.

During that debate, the government told us that stopping the bombing to bring President Milosevic back at the negotiation table was absolutely out of the question. Yet, this is precisely what the German peace plan proposes. Today, the Minister of Foreign Affairs told us that he was aware of that plan and that he had discussed it during the weekend.

Can the Minister of Foreign Affairs tell us whether Canada changed its position, or whether the minister and cabinet did not inform us, did not tell this House about Canada's participation in these talks on diplomatic options, during the meeting of foreign affairs ministers the minister attended?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure where the hon. member gets his information.

The proposal is not talking about a pause and then something happening. We are saying if there is an agreement, which is what we have been saying all along from the very first, if there is an agreement, then the bombing would stop while Milosevic withdrew his troops. You cannot have troops withdrawing if you are bombing, but there would be no pause until there was that agreement.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I understand, but we were told just 48 hours ago that it was pointless to raise such possibilities. Today, we are being told the opposite.

We were also told that it was pointless to raise the issue at the security council, since Russia and China are opposed to any diplomatic settlement that would include the withdrawal of Milosevic's troops from Kosovo.

It just so happens that the Chinese premier is here for a week. Could the minister tell us if the government intends to discuss the German proposal with the Chinese Prime Minister, to convince him of the need to have the UN security council examine this peace plan?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the answer is yes.

[Daniel Turp, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Mr. Speaker, despite our repeated questions to the Prime Minister and the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Government of Canada has, in our opinion, done nothing to assume leadership and find a political solution to the conflict raging in Kosovo.

Not only is Germany proposing a peace plan, its chancellor is proposing a stability pact for the Balkans.

Could the Prime Minister and the Minister of Foreign Affairs finally show some leadership by unreservedly supporting the German peace plan and by working as hard as possible to convince the NATO allies and the UN security council of the value of this plan?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as I told the Leader of the Opposition, the German proposal was on the agenda for all G-8 members last weekend, Canada included.

We are, in particular, greatly interested in ensuring that the United Nations play an active role in any agreement on Kosovo. As the hon. member is aware, last week I went to the United Nations to discuss with the secretary general the role the UN could play.

[Daniel Turp, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if this peace plan is so important, why was it not mentioned in the debate in the House?

Two things are obvious: Canada's lack of leadership and the obstinate refusal of the Prime Minister to hold a vote on the nature of our commitment.

Since the Prime Minister and the Minister of Foreign Affairs are in agreement on a continuation of Monday's debate on the situation in Kosovo, would they now be prepared to focus this debate on the German peace plan and to have this House vote on the plan—

[The Speaker]

The hon. Deputy Prime Minister.

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have made an offer to the opposition parties to continue the debate begun on Monday, and some of them turned it down. If they still want to have that opportunity, we will give it very careful consideration.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

Canadians are desperate for us to continue pursuing diplomatic solutions to the Kosovo crisis through the United Nations. In my letter sent to the Prime Minister earlier today, I outlined how Canada has a means through its position on the security council to overcome the veto barrier. It has been done before. Think of Lester Pearson in the Suez crisis.

Will Canada use its position on the security council to put forward a resolution to get the Kosovo crisis before the UN General Assembly?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I certainly agree with the sentiment expressed by the leader of the New Democratic Party that Canadians, in fact people around the world, want to see a diplomatic solution. It is certainly something we have been actively pursuing.

I would point out that at the discussions held last weekend and at the NATO council, the nature of those diplomatic solutions were carefully examined. It would include going back to the United Nations Security Council to provide a mandate for an agreement to be followed through in Kosovo.

I would say at this point in time there is in active play the opportunity to use the security council. There are active discussions with the Russians about how that can be achieved.

We will take note of the idea of the hon. member.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, we have a chance for peace here. We have a chance to stop the killing. I hope the Minister of Foreign Affairs will pursue this proposal with a vengeance. It has worked before. For his role in that process Lester Pearson got a Nobel peace prize. It has worked before and it can work again.

Will the Minister of Foreign Affairs assure Canadians today that we will use our seat on the security council to sponsor a resolution to get the Kosovo crisis before the UN General Assembly?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, last week when I was at the United Nations I met with the secretary general as well as representatives from a number of delegations. We talked about a united for peace resolution. The assessment at the time was that there was no consensus for that, that there would not be an agreed upon vote at the assembly itself.

What I am saying to the hon. member is that there is now in play a proposal that would be designed to bring to the security council an agreement of all the parties that would lead to a settlement in Kosovo. Right now that is the opportunity we are working on very actively in co-operation with other G-8 members and other members of the NATO council.

As I said, we will continue to pursue that. If it does not work, we will look at other options.

[David Price, Progressive Conservative, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the Prime Minister for his rare but clear and concise answer yesterday.

I would also like to remind the government of the Somalia commission of inquiry and its call for a vigilant parliament. The Somalia report cautioned about sending troops abroad that were not properly trained for their designate mission.

Will the Deputy Prime Minister assure the House that before Canadian ground forces are deployed to the Balkans that they are properly trained and equipped for their designate mission?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Yes, Mr. Speaker.

[David Price, Progressive Conservative, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this is a whole new thing.

I am informed that the 3rd Battalion of Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, our ACE and UN standby units, have been training for months for action in the Balkans, including at least one trip to the United States for training. The training in the United States was not oriented to peacekeeping and they are now, in turn, training Lord Strathcona's Horse. With support, that would be about 2,000 soldiers. Can the minister confirm that this group is being considered for the Kosovo mission and in what capacity?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, all of our troops are trained to be combat capable. There are various conditions that come up in peacekeeping missions. We have seen that in Bosnia and in other theatres. They are not always peaceful. They have to be prepared for different eventualities.

Yesterday the hon. member brought up this figure of 2,000. He brought it up because he said that something was being discussed at Kingston. I looked into that and I found out that a month ago there was a classroom discussion at the peacekeeping training centre there. Somebody asked a question about different theoretical possibilities and there was a general discussion.

Policy for the Canadian forces is not made in a classroom in Kingston, it is made at defence headquarters. He is being mischievous and irresponsible.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, on the very day of the Kosovo debate in this House, in response to a direct question, the Prime Minister categorically stated that the use of ground troops was not being considered, period. So the possibility was not debated. It was not on the table.

Suddenly we find out that this was actively being considered by the government at the time, in fact the week before. Why would the government withhold this information from the House if its desire is to get the support of the House for what it is doing in Kosovo?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, we have been abundantly clear about this. The only ground forces we have been talking about are those in relation to a peace implementation plan. There will be peacekeepers when a peaceful condition exists in Kosovo. That is the only thing this government has put forward. It was discussed in the House on February 17 and that is what we are preparing 600 troops to do.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, we will give the defence minister a chance to be even more abundantly clear. If this has been discussed and considered, will he tell the House precisely what commitment of ground forces Canada is going to make to this international peace force under the German plan? And will the government bring forward a motion in this House asking for a votable commitment to that commitment?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, talk about votable situations. The official opposition had an opposition day and its members chose not to talk about this subject at all. If they want a vote, they could vote no confidence in this government.

This government is taking its responsibility and doing the proper thing because we care about the people in Kosovo who are being persecuted by the Yugoslav government.

[René Laurin, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the Minister of National Defence again raised the possibility of Canada's sending between 600 and 800 ground troops to Kosovo. They would probably be posted in Macedonia.

No mention was ever made in the House of soldiers being posted anywhere but in Kosovo and doing anything but playing a humanitarian and peacekeeping role.

Would the Minister of National Defence confirm that 800 soldiers could be sent to Macedonia, and, if so, what role they will play?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, there is no change from what has been said. We had said 600 to 800 troops, but we now have it pinned down to 600 troops. Yes, they would go to Macedonia because they would be part of a co-operative effort with the British who are located in Macedonia. We have not determined when they are going to be deployed, but their only deployment will be as peacekeepers.