Mr. Speaker, we have to look at the contribution rates and the fact that 40% of the contributions to this plan are made by the members.
I believe quite strongly, particularly with the investment policies promoted by and provided for in the new legislation, that the returns for this fund should actually improve over a period of time. If the government were to withdraw 60% of the fund, 40% should go back into improved benefits.
I recognize the government's arguments relative to defined benefits, that there is a guarantee the government has, but the government is grossly overestimating and exaggerating that argument to deny reasonable benefits. There was a small improvement in benefits in this legislation. But the fact is that the improvements sought by the Federal Superannuates National Association go a lot further in terms of survivor benefits for instance and in a number of areas create a much more comprehensively fair package of benefits for its members.
I would suggest, before the government delves into this plan for general spending purposes, that it should look more seriously at improving benefits within the plan.
The other thing we should keep in mind as well, in response finally to the hon. member's question, is that over the period of time, particularly with investments in the equities markets, it is not a bad thing to have a reasonable surplus within the plan from a security perspective. We should always be cautious about withdrawing that surplus and then in the future asking the taxpayer to kick back in.
The correct answer frankly is some combination of what he has suggested. I do believe we need to call in some of the best pension experts and benefits experts in the country if not in the world to help design the most optimal combination. It is not one that we should define in parliament solely on a debate type format without reasonable diligence and research.