Madam Speaker, the hon. member is right.
In dealing with a problem, a dispute in a large firm, for example, because there are surpluses in the workers' pension fund, we will no longer have any valid arguments. It can no longer be said that this is not how it works, when the federal government allows itself under Bill C-78 to do everything it is not supposed to do, namely go off with the money.
We will no longer have any valid arguments. My colleague is right on that. I recall a time not so far off when one of Conrad Black's businesses was at issue, and Conrad Black said “The surpluses do not belong to the employees anymore, they belong to me”. How can we argue that he is wrong.
In this case, given that contributions are made by both sides and the future of the pensions of today's workers is at stake, how can we say “You should sit down and discuss this”? We have reached a point where we no longer have any valid arguments.
The other thing I would like to point out, in connection with what the hon. member mentioned about the employment insurance fund, is that the government has just legitimized a fraudulent practice—that of going off with the money.
We recall the Minister of Finance saying last November “I foresee the possibility of introducing a bill on the management of the employment insurance fund surplus”. He had a bill like this one in mind. However, faced with popular opposition—that of the Bloc Quebecois and the other opposition parties in the House—he backed away.
However, the Minister of Finance dreamt of having this legitimacy, since at the moment, it is not yet certain that he is within the law when he dips into the employment insurance fund, and there are cases before the courts at the moment. Among others, the CSN is making representations on this issue, on the grounds that the finance minister's interpretation of the Employment Insurance Act is stretching the point somewhat. It might snap, because the Employment Insurance Act includes pretty clear provisions on the use of surpluses, and reducing the deficit and paying off the debt are not options. The EI surpluses must not be used for such purposes.
The Minister of Finance dreamed about tabling a bill like that, but he does not have the same agenda as his colleague, the President of the Treasury Board. He has a different and more secret agenda, but everyone knows about it. I am referring to the leadership race. It would have been terrible for a politician to table a bill legitimizing the use of funds that do not belong to the government.