It is true.
Instead they are using the stale argument that somehow the government is ramming something through. One of them made the statement that just because we have a majority we think we can do things around here. Is that not bizarre in a democracy? When we get a majority it means we are responsible to do things. It means we are the government.
Not that it would ever happen, but were the members opposite through some freak of fate on this side of the House with a majority government, would they turn the reins of government over to a minority opposition party, to a party that represents only one region of the country, a party that does not have the interests of the entire nation in its platform? I do not think they would. If we wanted to see things rammed through this place, just let those guys get control of the reins of government for one minute.
What we have here is a public pension fund. It is particularly curious that members of the Reform Party, of all people, would not support using a surplus. How did that surplus build up? It was through contributions over the years guaranteed by the employer, which is the federal government. A surplus of some $30 billion has been identified. Rather than leaving it in a black box or leaving it on the books, the government says it makes sense to reduce the size of the federal government's debt with that money. This is only one program of many.
At least I understand the principles behind the New Democrats who would purport to represent the men and women in the unions in this situation. At least with their principles they say that the money belongs to the workers. I do not agree with them but I understand the philosophy and the principles they stand behind on the issue.
I find such difficulty coming to grips with the other parties, notably the Reform Party. It would purport to want to cut taxes, eliminate the debt, reduce spending in every aspect of the government, except health care of course where it is going to spend more except it is cutting so it will not have more to spend. The math is quite mind boggling. It comes out opposed to reducing the debt.
I am really curious. The member opposite said he would like to find a member in the Liberal backbench who would stand up and vote against the government so that he could respect that member. I would like to find a member over there who could possibly justify the total abdication of Reform's stated policy for fiscal responsibility by suggesting that a $30 billion surplus generated primarily through good management of the pension fund and by the taxpayers should be left alone.
I do not understand it. I am sure if their constituents back home in western Canada had an opportunity to question them on it, the constituents would wonder why Reform members are doing this. It goes contrary to everything they have stood for. Where is the public?
It is interesting. We do not hear about the bill. We do not hear about the fact that there has been over one year of consultation with the public sector unions. There are things we could not agree with.
Should it be such a tremendous surprise that in an employer-employee bargaining relationship there might be things that cannot be resolved at the bargaining table? There might be things we would have to agree to disagree on and move on. That is exactly what has happened here. That process has taken place. Nobody is ramming anything through. If the opposition members were doing their duty as opposition members they would be putting on the floor the real issues of debate in this bill that have been raised in committee.
That is the other point. The bill went to the natural resources committee. A member stood and showed this 200 page bill. If the members opposite are so upset with it, we would expect out of a 200 page bill there might be 50, 60, 100 amendments. We see it all the time. We see it with other bills. Why is it there are a total of 15 amendments that have been put on the floor and most of them are absolutely not the type of amendment that would have a great impact? They are minor amendments.
I do not understand why those members will not discuss the bill. They continually want to talk about the so-called issue of closure which is not what we are doing at all. We are at report stage in the House which is a normal process.
Members opposite think that Canadians are in a uproar over this. A lot of Canadians would love to have a pension both as secure and as generous as this pension is. A lot of my constituents would look at this and ask why should they, taxpayers, leave a $30 billion surplus for somebody to play around with in the future when in fact it should be used to pay down the debt.
One member opposite said that at election time somebody is going to be using this money to build roads or to do favours in someone's riding. We are talking about reducing the national debt.