Madam Speaker, I am pleased to take part in the debate on this motion. I know the member for Yukon has worked very hard on raising the profile of this issue and adding to the very important debate in the House. She has also worked on talking to members across party lines about the need to get at the reality in a modern context in terms of a section of our current Criminal Code.
Going back in history is relevant to a discussion of this section of our code, which in essence had its history hundreds of years ago. It was based on a concept of honour at a time when men could treat women as property, at a time when men could defend the honour of their children having been molested, specifically sons being sexually assaulted. It has a historical context which in reality is not as relevant in today's society.
There is a modernization. When our Criminal Code was codified in 1892 this section was included. There has been discussion over the years. I believe this section should be looked at when we talk about the defences of provocation and self-defence. These two issues are linked in my mind.
Around 1998 the Minister of Justice had the Department of Justice start consultations across the land on this area of the law, this specific section. They are still ongoing. I believe that discussion is necessary. When I originally looked at this section I thought it was fairly black and white and tended to agree with the hon. member who presented the motion.
However, what I am hearing in my investigation is that some of the consultations are still ongoing and different groups are not reaching a consensus of opinion. In other words, a process is under way that will address some of these issues. I think that process has already shown—and I believe the Department of Justice and the Minister of Justice would agree—that some of the criticisms enunciated in the House and levelled at this section would be valid criticisms.
A review of Hansard and the previous hour of debate on the motion would also find that there are other views that raise different arguments in relation to this section. The courts have been more likely to use this in a situation where instead of a man's ability for action, as in the argument of the hon. member, there is the passing of violence against an individual out of anger or frustration or a sense of honour that has been hurt in some way. It is now the opposite. It could be used more as a defence realistically when there is continuous provocation to such an extent that somebody loses actual control.
This is a complex area. It is not simple. It is certainly not black and white. At the end of the day this is an area in which I welcome constant and continuing vigilance. I would like to see some reform on this section. I would also like to see that reform come at a time when the consultation process has been completed and all various options have been put on the table for us to evaluate together. I would be supportive after hearing especially from the equality seeking groups across the land who are coming to the table and discussing this as the consultations go forward.
It is necessary that Canadians realize that just because something is old it is not automatically wrong. Something that has a lot of history can be looked at with an understanding that when we move to eradicate it, it could have repercussions or different ramifications in areas which have not yet been thought of. Some of the self-defence now is more likely for instances where women are responding in a loss of control to a situation where over a long period of time there has been assault by men against women in a household and someone loses control for a moment and acts out of anger. I could see that happening if anyone came across someone attacking a child of ours or a child of the community.
We should not excuse violence. We should never excuse violence, but I think there has to remain some flexibility of an understanding that human beings are fallible. I would certainly want a very high test level.
In our review of the cases in this section that in some cases the judge felt this defence was not available. It really is case dependent, factual dependent. It provides for a level of flexibility in our criminal law, but it is one of those areas where there is no excuse for violence. If we go from that position, I think there is a lot of value in laying this issue before us today.
I commend the hon. member for her work on the motion. I would look forward to a time where I could stand in the House and support a bill that would modernize this situation. Before I do so, as I say, in fairness to all potential situations I would want to have all options laid before me.
I urge those conducting the consultation process inside the Department of Justice that if it is being done at a pace which has not been as rapid as it could be, this motion gives some emphasis to pushing the process along so that we can come to a point within parliament where we can be looking at modernization of the particular section.
I do not wish to prolong this debate by repeating myself. I think I have laid where I stand clearly on the table. It is from a viewpoint of not trying to sit on the fence but just saying at this point in time I will not support the motion because I do not feel that the consultation process has been finished.
I am at this stage glad that there is one in place. I would like to hurry that process along so that at a future date within this session of parliament I would hope we could be looking at the issue and seeing at that stage where informed decision making should stand.