A Liberal member is saying that they cannot spend it. This is very revealing. Maybe he should talk to retired public servants, retired RCMP officers and retired military personnel in the country. The Liberal government is saying that they cannot spend it, that they have too much money and that they cannot have higher pensions. The government says the Canada pension is better indexed. It says retirees cannot spend the money so it is going to take the money from them and use it for other purposes.
This is a Liberal member revealing in the House today that these retired pensioners cannot spend the money. I hope our pensioners understand that the Liberals' position is that pensioners cannot spend the money so it will take it use it for other purposes. That is a very revealing statement. I am sure, Mr. Speaker, that you, as a very non-partisan officer of the House, would be scandalized to get up in your place and comment on a question like that.
I hear laughter from across the way. The Liberals are embarrassed to hear this Liberal member from Hamilton saying that they cannot spend the money. What has been said today is very revealing. It is more revealing than when the minister got up and read a prepared and scripted text written by bureaucrats.
I want to make three points. The first point is that the government has really held the pensioners in the country in contempt by not having a proper public hearing on this bill today. It is a very major step and a major initiative. There should have been very extensive public hearings so pensioners could have had a say in what was happening to their money. If we had a parliamentary democracy that was worth writing home about, the pensioners would have had a say. However, that is not the case.
I noticed an article in the paper awhile ago by a very distinguished journalist, Doug Fisher. He said that the government was really holding the pensioners and the opposition parties in contempt. He said that the government was ignoring the parliament of the country by bringing in closure to force the bill through the House of Commons. I gather the Prime Minister will designate this as a confidence vote forcing Liberal backbenchers to vote with the government to make sure this is railroaded through the House.
The time has come for serious parliamentary change so some of the Liberals across the way, who do have some independent, free thinking minds, can get up and speak their minds and their piece on this. It is about time we had that kind of parliamentary reform and change, but that has not happened.
Later today the Prime Minister will use his power and his whips to make sure that Liberal trained seals on the backbenches get up and vote yes in favour of Bill C-78. That really is a tragedy and a shame in terms of our parliamentary democracy.
I am sure many Liberals across the way, like the member from downtown Toronto, are hanging their heads in shame because they cannot get up and speak their piece. All they can do is laugh at the plight of the pensioners.
I remember back in 1985 when Prime Minister Brian Mulroney tried to partially de-index old age pensions. There was a huge demonstration on Parliament Hill and grey power across the country organized rapidly. A little woman, Madam Denis, went up to the prime minister and said to him in French “You lied to us. Vous avez menti”. The people forced the largest majority government in the history of this country, which I believe had 211 seats and was sitting at over 50% in the polls, to back down. That government is not here today and one of the reasons is because of what it tried to do to seniors.
I remind the Liberal government that if it wants to take a leaf out of Brian Mulroney's book it is well on its way to alienating a lot of Canadians, a lot of seniors in this country. That is one point I wanted to make.
The other point I want to make concerns the investment board which will be set up to invest part of the money in the fund. We have discovered that there will not be any ethical screening of those investments. For example, the Canada pension plan now has an investment board which invests about 15% of CPP funds in the stock market. That investment is made in accordance with the TSE 300 Index, which means that some of the money is going into Imasco which owns Imperial Tobacco.
Imperial Tobacco is a company which is encouraging young people to smoke and become addicted to cigarettes. I think that contravenes a stated public policy of the Government of Canada, including the Minister of Health, that we are encouraging people to stop smoking. We are aiming campaigns at children to encourage them to stop smoking. On the other hand the Canada pension plan is tying part of its future success to kids who smoke by buying shares in Imperial Tobacco. I think that is wrong.
I know that the Minister of Finance is committed to look at that in terms of the Canada pension plan. I wish the minister in charge of this bill would also take a look at whether we should bring in ethical screening in terms of the investments board's investments when it comes to the superannuation of retired public servants. I do not think it is right to invest pensioners' money in companies like Imperial Tobacco and indeed other companies which pollute our atmosphere, which use child labour in different parts of the world and which are irresponsible socially and ethically. I would urge the government to amend this bill to bring in ethical investment guidelines. I would certainly support an amendment to that effect.
I cannot support a bill that is going to take $30 billion away from the pensioners of this country, but we could certainly improve the bill. That is what parliamentary democracy is all about, suggesting ideas and policies to make legislation better. However, again the trained seals across the way are going to vote in accordance with the Prime Minister's wishes. The member from the central part of Toronto, the member from Spadina, wants to be a cabinet minister, so he is not going to alienate the Prime Minister.
If we had some serious democratic reform in the House the member from Spadina could propose an amendment to bring in ethical screening of the investments made by the investment board. That is what we should be doing in this case and in other cases as well.
I want to address the whole question which has become controversial with some Liberal backbenchers, which is that the benefits will apply to people in conjugal relationships. The issue that is raised time and again is, are the rights of gays and lesbians to be treated the same as people in common law relationships. I certainly support that thrust of the bill.
I want to make it very clear that we should be treating people equally in this country, regardless of sexual orientation or personal circumstances. Therefore, I would appeal to Liberal members who are in opposition to that part of their own bill to support the thrust of the bill in terms of equality of people whether they are living in a common law relationship or whether they are gays and lesbians living in that type of relationship as well. That is very important. There was a supreme court decision very recently and I think we are making progress in that general area.
I want to say once again that I am discouraged closure was brought in on this bill. I was very dismayed to hear a Liberal member say in the House today that seniors do not need the $30 billion, that they could not spend it anyway. The member from Hamilton said “They could not spend it anyway”. Hansard will indicate that is exactly what he said from his seat on the far left-hand side of the House.
I also believe there should have been proper parliamentary hearings and discussions. There should have been hearings with retired military personnel, retired government workers and the RCMP over the direction of this bill and what to do with the money in the fund. That has not happened.
Let us make sure that when we set up investment funds, which is something new in terms of pension legislation in the country, we bring in the principle of ethical screening to make sure that the public funds being invested on behalf of pensioners in the future and today will be done ethically in accordance with the wishes of the vast majority of the Canadian people.