Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise to speak again to Bill C-78.
One of the issues we have to address before we talk about the bill is the fact that closure has been moved and the debate has been limited. When we look at some of the reasons the government would want to do that, we see that in its backbenches there is a bit of a revolt going on with a number of its members saying that this bill is flawed. They do not like it and they are not going to support it.
The government also does this to keep things moving along quickly, so the people across Canada do not have the chance to respond to their members of parliament and so we do not have a chance to fully debate the bill in the House.
I think the government also does this to keep some of its own members from gathering momentum to oppose this. It seems that the Prime Minister is going to bring out the big stick and make sure this bill is supported by all members over there. It should be interesting later on when we vote on this.
We heard earlier that there is nothing to worry about and that the money will be there. The money is there now. Why do we not just leave it there? There is a $30 billion surplus in this account and it is to no credit of the government that it has accrued. Anytime the government sees a lump of money, it wants to grab it.
The indication is that this is going to pay the debt, but actually this law is so vague and silent on this that the surplus can be used by the President of the Treasury Board to do whatever he wishes. The government is saying it could go to pay the debt, but it could go anywhere. Canadians have the right to know where it is going to go and to what benefit to them.
We have seen huge increases in CPP premiums. They are going to go up a total of 73% over the next number of years. That still will not solidify the plan. There is a good possibility that premiums will be reduced or the age limit will be raised. Besides that, we have seen the government take the $26 million surplus in the employment insurance fund.
It seems that every time we see a couple of dollars stuck together here, and I realize that $26 billion and $30 billion are huge amounts of money, the government wants to get it and put it somewhere. I am not sure where it is putting it, but closer to the next election I imagine we will find out where it has gone.
This bill allows the government to seize the public service fund surplus. The three funds affected are the public service plan, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police plan and the Canadian forces plan.
That $30 billion has built up over the years for a number of reasons. There is the fact that inflation has been low. The actuaries projected that inflation would rise and the contributions would go up and that has not happened. There are three critical areas. Salary increases have been kept low, interest rates on investments have been good and inflation is low.
Frozen wages for six or seven years, whatever it was, is another thing. Public servants had their wages frozen. They finally got a little bit of an increase and the government came right back and said, “Okay, there is $30 billion in your pension fund and we want to get our hands on it”. This money belongs to the workers. It should stay where the workers can rely on it.
There have been shortfalls in the past. There could be shortfalls again. If this money is not there to pick up the slack, then back we go to another tax to pay for it. That is what this has turned into. They have not been pension contributions. They have not been EI premiums. If the government can take that money without using it for the purpose it was intended originally, then it is not a contribution or premium. It is a tax and it should be called that. The government forgets that this money belongs to the taxpayers and the employees.
We got into quite a debate a minute ago with a government member talking about conjugal relationships. The definition of that is one of the issues that has really caused some concern among members of our party and all parties.
The courts in the last little while have been creating laws. That is our job. That is why people voted for us. That is why we are here, to legislate. When the courts can take that away from us, when nine appointed judges of the supreme court can start making laws, then this country has a serious problem and one that needs to be addressed.
Why would we leave a clause or a word in the bill that is going to cause concern and that is going to have to go to lawyers and courts to be defined? The member for Calgary Centre put forward an amendment to this bill to take that word out and it was defeated by the government. The member stated that he has a problem with that word and if it was not there the bill would be better. Why did the government not support the amendment when it was put forward?
In this new bill survivors benefits have been expanded to beneficiaries. The thing that really puzzles me and many in this country is how we are going to decide if a relationship is conjugal. If the decision is left to the courts, the whole issue will be gone over again and again until everybody is somewhat confused as to what the issue is.
The whole idea of this expanding into relationships of a conjugal nature throws a whole different slant on the bill which does not need to be there. As members from all sides have said, we would have another look at this if that was not in there. It is there and this will eventually end up back in the courts where another decision will be made by the appointed judges. This is where the problem exists. We as legislators are not allowed to make the laws but instead it is the judges.
The people who came to see me from my riding who belong to this pension plan are very concerned. There was some representation from each of the affected funds. These people who are drawing from the pension wanted time to get together to talk to other members from across the country because they are concerned. They do not have the time because of the haste with which the government wants to move this bill through so it can get its hands on the money.
That concern should not be there. People who belong to this pension should feel very secure. They should be able to raise the questions that need to be raised so we can relate to them what the issues are and that they do not need to worry, but we do not have that time.
I believe that if a pension plan has built up a surplus of $30 billion we would have some degree of comfort if things changed, if there was a downturn in the economy, if something happened that the outgoing funds were higher than the incoming, we would have a bit of a surplus. That is gone. If money is not available to pay these people of course they are going to be worried.
If we compound the public service pension surplus being taken by the government with the concern that the CPP might not be available for people when they retire, it adds up. People have a right to feel secure in their retirement after putting money in for years.
The whole idea that the President of the Treasury Board has the authority to take this surplus and use it as he wishes is not right. The pensioners who are coming forward are very concerned with this. They have a real point that there is no accountability here. The fact that closure has been brought in on this bill and they have not had time to put forward all their concerns is not what this House is all about. That is not why we were elected by our constituents.
We oppose this bill. We feel that the money that is in the fund should remain right where it is.