Mr. Speaker, I notice that he should use notes, that he should do research, because the difficulty we have is that he does not understand the facts. That is part of the difficulty he is facing. I wish the hon. member who uses a computer at his desk would put some of the research material in, maybe get on to the Internet and tap into the government's information.
When we take into account that with the government an actuarial evaluator determines how much money is actually required on a year to year basis. Even if there is a surplus the evaluator still determines on a year to year basis how much is required, not taking into account the surplus. That is why since 1991-92 the surplus has increased to $30 billion. That is what brings us to the point of dealing with this piece of legislation.
Even the auditor general has asked us to reduce the amount of interest we pay on that. We have conformed with the accounting rules that the hon. member for St. Albert should have educated the other hon. members on to ensure they understood the basic facts we were dealing with.
Unfortunately, the hon. member does not realize we take into account that in most pension plans the employees contribute 40%. What has happened here is that the taxpayer is contributing 70%. In effect, that is why Canadian taxpayers year after year contribute more than they would in any other pension plan, even in the private sector. That is what we are facing.
If we take into account the way the grass is growing, I cannot understand why the Reform Party wants Canadian taxpayers to continue contributing to the point where they will contribute almost the total amount and the employee contributes almost zero. I do not understand why the Reform Party wants to take from the taxpayers' money to pay for the civil servants' pension.