Exactly. This is for the benefits of the Liberals. I know they are interested. I can see them over there paying rapt attention to every word that comes out of my mouth.
This means that the first nation can expropriate for any community purpose. If it wants to build a casino or put up a multi-residential structure, it can expropriate people's residences in the process because that could be deemed a community purpose. This requires the first nation to abide by the rules set out in the Expropriation Act.
On the one hand they have increased protection. On the other hand they have not given any sense of increased protection at all. This effectively means that the expropriation powers of the 14 bands covered under the agreement are much stronger and much broader than expropriation powers anywhere else in Canada.
The amendments that have been moved are not nearly sufficient to level the playing field and make the expropriation powers similar to other communities, other provinces or even the federal government.
The minister responds and says:
There are a number of things I should like to say. First, there has been a very direct focus on ensuring that third-party interests are considered and managed appropriately as a result of this bill. As honourable senators are aware, any kind of third-party interest that exists now will continue to exist until its expiration, even after the passage of this bill.
The other thing to note is that the 14 First Nations have gone to considerable lengths to engage and consult third parties and must, with final agreement of their individual agreements, ensure that all third parties are aware of what is happening and what the circumstances of the land codes as developed will be. The focus on third parties is a real one.
We want to ensure that we pass good legislation.
Frankly, I find that a bit of a joke. I will continue with the quote.
That is the priority for all of us, including First Nations who will be among the beneficiaries. I believe it is a win-win-win situation for all parties.
I have followed the debate and discussions you had around new language that may add clarity while not changing the intent of the bill. I want to reiterate that the intention of the bill as presented is consistent with what now exists in the Indian Act and with what will be available, and what is available, to other expropriating bodies. However, if we can get a clearer product and, from the point of view of the table, a better piece of legislation by clarifying the language, we must consider it.
With regard to that issue, I just wish to say again that it is vitally important that we get Bill C-49 completed and enacted into law. We have communities within the 14 First Nations who are stymied now, waiting for jobs and economic development. I am thinking, for example, of the Scugog First Nation, who have other lease arrangements that are in limbo because we are waiting for this legislation.
The minister is going to the emotional appeal rather than addressing herself to the technicalities of this bill. She, as the minister, should understand those technicalities. She should understand the importance and significance of them and she should be able to speak to them. She was not prepared. She danced all around the issue.
I have heard this minister speak many times. She is very good at emotional appeal. She is very good at talking in generalities, but she is not very good at talking about specifics. I believe the reason she is not is that she fundamentally does not understand this language herself. I believe that she is acting at the behest of her own department and that her department is the one that formulates the legislation. I also believe it is the department that pushes the agenda and that the minister is there as a mouthpiece for the department to do its bidding.
This minister has shown over and over again, whether we are debating Bill C-49, the Nisga'a treaty or other issues, that she does not have a fundamental understanding of what she is talking about.
Here is another example of the minister not wanting to speak to the specifics of this bill. She continues:
Getting this done must be a priority. I recognize that there are issues. In that regard, making these clarifications may allow us to move forward with a good product. I am hopeful that the table will encourage swift passage through the Senate and state loudly and clearly that they understand and appreciate how significantly important it is for the 14 First Nations to get on with it and for us to prove that, in fact, we can change the relationship and recognize, with courtesy, respect and dignity, the capacity and capability of First Nations to govern themselves.
There we have a clear, emotional appeal for courtesy, respect and dignity. She is calling on us to have that, which we all have and want to have, but that is not the point. It is not a matter of discourtesy or disrespect or a lack of appreciation for these 14 bands that leads us to this point. It is a concern for the technicalities in this bill. The minister does not want to address the issue so she dances all around it.
Senator Austin says:
We should like your assurance that the bill will be dealt with expeditiously in the House of Commons when sent there.
The minister says:
To the extent that I have any kind of influence, believe me, it will be made clear that this bill is a priority for me. I would ask the senators, in their report and at third reading, to clarify that it is an important undertaking for them as well.
Senator Austin said:
Mr. Chairman, the minister tabled a letter. With the agreement of colleagues, The letter should be appended to the report as well as to the proceedings.
Senator Tkachuk said, “We have not seen the letter”. The chairman said, “Well, it is being copied now”. Senator Austin said, “We will need to come back to that”. Senator Ghitter said “Minister, I congratulate you on this legislation”. Who is Mr. Ghitter? Would Mr. Ghitter be a Liberal Senator?