Debates of June 11th, 1999

Government Grants

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. I would ask the hon. opposition House leader to go directly to his question, please.

[Randy White, Reform, Langley—Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, why will the Prime Minister not do what really creates jobs in the country and cut taxes for his constituents who, by the way, are suffering from an unemployment rate of better than 12%?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Windsor West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there is an inaccurate and misleading premise to the question. The Prime Minister has no shares in the company in question. As the ethics commissioner told the parliamentary committee, “This is a done deal. It was over. There are no connections and no financial connections regarding the Prime Minister in either the auberge or the golf course”.

The premise of the question is wrong and the hon. member is wrong in saying the Prime Minister has not been helping his constituents. He has been doing so and doing so properly. If the hon. member was not trying to hide the fact that the united alternative referendum was an abject failure—only 32% of the members voted—then he would not try to—

[The Speaker]

Especially on this day, my colleagues, would we stay away from the word “misleading”.

Health

[Gurmant Grewal, Reform, Surrey Central, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Canada's blood system has failed us again.

Mr. Joel Pinon lied about his history when he donated blood, but his lie is only part of the problem. Someone was given Mr. Pinon's blood before it was properly screened. Canadians are told that their blood system is safe but we now know it is not.

How can the health minister claim that our blood system has been fixed, when we now know that simple screening processes are being ignored?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, as the member knows, when people give blood they are asked questions to identify and eliminate risk. In the case the member refers to, someone was asked the right questions. The appropriate and safe procedure was followed. Apparently the man was dishonest in responding. As a result, the regulatory agencies have acted. They have traced the blood. They have tested it and it has tested negative. The regulatory agencies are doing everything they can to respond in an appropriate way.

[Gurmant Grewal, Reform, Surrey Central, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the health minister is making light of a very serious situation. This decision became public only because Mr. Pinon was trying to make a point.

Unfortunately, another point was made: The blood system has a problem with its screening procedures.

What specific measures is the health minister taking to protect the lives of vulnerable Canadians?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I assure the House and all Canadians that Health Canada and all of those involved in the blood system are doing everything possible to ensure a safe supply.

One thing that is not helpful is for people, like this member and his colleague yesterday, to stand here and try to fearmonger for political purposes about the blood system in the country. This is nothing less than shameful.

Social Union

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Claude Ryan, the former leader of the Quebec Liberal Party, judges social union very severely.

He says, and I quote “This is the third time in the past 20 years that, after committing to a joint undertaking with the other provinces and territories, Quebec has been abandoned in mid-stream by its partners.”

How can the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs consider that social union is the eighth wonder of the world, when even Quebec federalists consider it one more step toward a highly centralized Canada?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, we share Mr. Ryan's opinion on the objective, which is to affirm the specific nature of Quebec within Canada.

We have differing opinions, however, on the consequences of social union. In our opinion, this agreement is going to reinforce affirmation of the specific nature of Quebec within Canada, and if the unique character of Quebec society is not explicitly mentioned in the agreement, which Mr. Ryan justifiably regrets, that is very much contrary to the wishes of the Government of Canada.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the nation builders in Ottawa are determined, in the name of an abstract and doctrinaire vision of individual and provincial equality, to introduce asymmetry into our federal system.

When is the minister going to quit playing with words and concepts and tell Quebecers clearly that his vision of the federalism of the future is an even greater centralization than we have at present, which does not correspond to what Quebecers, even federalist Quebecers, want?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, no one can seriously claim that Canada is a centralized federation. Even Mr. Parizeau, the shadow leader of the Bloc Quebecois, has acknowledged that it was the most decentralized.

I shall take the hon. member literally, however. He is calling for clear questions to be asked of Quebecers. If he asks Quebecers clearly whether they want to renounce Canada in favour of Quebec as an independent state, what the Prime Minister of Canada said in 1995 to the then Leader of the Opposition and leader of the Bloc Quebecois is really extremely true “If you ask a clear question, you will take quite a beating”.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Fine opening message, Mr. Speaker.

The Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs is impressed by authoritative arguments. Yet, he quoted Claude Castonguay this week in defence of the social union. Here is what Claude Ryan thinks of Mr. Castonguay's remark, and I quote “He is the only one to express such a favourable opinion”.

My question is for the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs. Does the minister realize he does not have many friends left in his camp to share and defend Ottawa's centralizing vision of Quebec?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, it is not a centralizing vision. The Government of Canada now has additional constraints on the exercise of its spending power.

I do not like authoritative arguments, but since the hon. member has invited me, I want to point out that the leader of the official opposition in the National Assembly said “Today's agreement is more than the status quo. It represents improvements in areas that are vital and sensitive to Quebec's interests”.

I would like to say as well that I have an Angus Reid poll here that shows 42% of Quebecers supporting the agreement, 26% of them opposing it and 21% undecided.

Quebecers are not sheep. They have varying opinions. They must be given good arguments, something the Bloc never does.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister may put on fancy airs here in the House, but he must consider it very disappointing to find himself isolated in his abstract and doctrinaire concept of nation building, according to the words of Claude Ryan himself.

Could the minister admit for once that apart from a few ultra federalists, no Quebecer supports the centralizing and unitarian vision of Canada his government is pursuing?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, since we are talking about Mr. Ryan, I would like to stick to arguments, so it is difficult to discuss with the member.

I would like to point out that, although we can disagree with Mr. Ryan, there are points on which we do agree.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order. Please. The Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Mr. Speaker, all the Bloc does is hurl insults.

[An hon. member]

You are the one hurling insults.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

I would like to say one thing. When the Bloc leader was the member for Roberval, this sort of thing did not occur, all to his credit.

Back to the argument now. Mr. Ryan did say things we agree with. If I may—

[An hon. member]

He is saying any old thing.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

—I will quote him, with respect to federal spending power.

I am not inclined to question this power in principle for two reasons. First, the spending power is an essential power of sovereign states. Second, in the past this power was necessary or very useful, to say the least, in situations of serious economic and social difficulty in the promotion of equal opportunity for all Canadians.

Agriculture

[John Solomon, NDP, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the agriculture minister is set to tour southeast Saskatchewan and southwest Manitoba later today.

If the minister were serious about understanding the real conditions faced by farmers, he would already know that more than two million acres of farmland are under water. Farmers are not interested in the media splash. What they really need is urgent cash.

When will the government stop persecuting western farmers and start helping western farmers?