Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his intervention.
There is no disagreement on facts. I have been on many reserves as a land surveyor and as a member of parliament. Anybody who has been on a reserve would not disagree with the facts. Anybody with eyes can see that things are terrible on reserves. They have been terrible for many years and if the present situation continues it will be terrible for many more years.
One of the things that happened in Britain was a change in social policies. It enabled individuals to take some control over their own lives while the government provided support along the way. It is not so much on the facts that we disagree but it is on process.
There is another situation in B.C. that was resolved with the Sechelt Band. Nobody has any question about that. It is a completely different type of land claim which does not have constitutional implications for its government but it does involve the land itself.
In the final analysis it is fair to say that there are really only two visions in this country. The Liberals, the Tories, the NDP and the Bloc represent one type of thinking on Indian affairs. The Reform Party has put forward a completely different vision, that there is a possibility for individualism to make a difference in the lives of Indian people and that they could own their own land.
In closing I point out to the hon. member that I have relatives who are Indians as well. They have done very well but they are not living on reserves. They are actually landowners and private citizens within the Canadian federation and they are very successful.