Madam Speaker, so far in the debate we have heard Reform members talk about some important issues in a substantive way: the constitutionality of the Nisga'a agreement, the four lawsuits being pressed to try to stop the agreement from going ahead, and many other substantive issues.
On the other hand, as I have listened to the debate I have heard members of the governing party and of the New Democratic Party pretty much spend their time attacking Reform and not answering the questions put after they finished their debate. I am quite shocked at the level of debate from these two parties in particular.
The Liberals are pretty much focused on imputing the motives of the Reform Party in terms of our stand on the agreement and on the motion today. We have heard the Liberals present a lot of emotional, feel good rhetoric but not much in terms of substance. We have seen the New Democratic Party members seemingly bent on protecting the undemocratic process of their provincial colleagues in British Columbia, and I am concerned about that.
I am surprised and bewildered by what I have heard from the Liberals and the New Democrats. The government thinks it can deal with a problem of inequality by enshrining further inequality. To me it seems unfathomable to try to deal with inequality by enshrining in law another inequality. Yet that is what the agreement will do in several ways if it goes ahead.
The potential inequality when it comes to the division of property in the case of a divorce is one big problem with this piece of legislation. It is troubling to think they believe we can deal with inequalities by enshrining others. I am also concerned about that.
I will refer to an aboriginal task force process and report in which I was involved in my constituency over the past year or year and a half. The aboriginal task force was established with me as chair for the purpose of hearing from grassroots aboriginal people the things that were most troubling them about the way their governments were working.
From those people I obtained nine recommendations. There were many more I could have put in the report, but I wanted it to be something that would be read by the minister. To her credit she met with the task force and heard what we had to say. These nine recommendations were from the people who were saying that these things caused the greatest problems in their everyday lives. These were their recommendations to the Indian affairs minister which they thought would help improve their lives.
I will go through these nine recommendations very quickly and ask whether they are dealt with in the Nisga'a agreement, whether the problems that were expressed and the recommendations for solving them are dealt with in the Nisga'a agreement. In that way we could evaluate how successful the agreement has been in answering the concerns of grassroots aboriginal people.
I will start by explaining a little about the process very quickly. It was a three stage process. The first stage was private consultation where none of the information that was given to me would be repeated. It was done in strictest confidence unless there was agreement from the person who made the statements.
The second stage was the questionnaire which was sent out to all the reserves and the towns near reserves in the constituency.
The third stage of the consultation process was public meetings where some of the key issues in the earlier part of the process were discussed in a public manner. About 70 aboriginal people attended one of the public meetings in St. Paul. We had an excellent discussion on some key issues.
I will go through the recommendations and comment very quickly on whether the Nisga'a deal includes them. The first recommendation is in the area of financial accountability. It states that the government must enforce more comprehensive and transparent financial reporting by band and settlement administrators. This information must be freely available to all members and the general public. That recommendation was getting at the lack or gaps in financial accountability, the most commonly expressed concern of the people involved in the process.
Does the Nisga'a agreement ensure that there will be comprehensive and transparent financial reporting and that it will be made available to the public? It does not. The first recommendation has not been dealt with in the agreement.
The second recommendation of the aboriginal task force states that to ensure sound financial management on reserves and settlements the government must provide better financial management support for aboriginal councillors and administrators.
The recommendation is saying that leadership needs some help in doing a better job of managing. It is a complementary point to the first one but focusing on what kind of help can be offered. One person said:
Problems on reserves are the outgrowth of a system which at one time prevented people from leaving reserves, and at one time starved them.
This was stated by George Forsyth, the administrator of the Onion Lake Band. He went on to say:
You can't go from a system where people were watched over every minute to one where they are totally on their own, and expect perfect accountability. The evolutionary process should have gone from control to help. But there has been no preparation to provide an infrastructure for accountability.
Does the Nisga'a agreement deal with this concern and with this recommendation? It does not.
The third recommendation, again on fiscal accountability, states that the government together with councillors and administrators must ensure there is effective, regular and ongoing consultation of band and settlement members. In other words get the people most affected by the government, the people on the reserves, involved on a regular basis so there is openness and transparency about what is going on.
Does the Nisga'a agreement deal with this? It does not. We saw some things that were actually quite shocking, including one member of a band at one public meeting saying that the band on that reserve had not called a meeting in seven years. That is a problem. There is nothing in this agreement that will ensure there will be ongoing and open consultation when it comes to fiscal accountability.
Another member said that the solution may be to require band meetings where people approve and forecast the budget. What an idea. What a concept. A budget would actually be approved in advance. It makes sense. There is nothing to ensure that in this agreement that will be dealt with.
The fourth recommendation is on democratic accountability, a huge concern on the part of the people the Lakeland aboriginal task force heard from. The government must establish an arm's length body or an ombudsman or agency to hear and act on the confidential concerns of aboriginal Canadians.
The recommendation is getting at something that was heard from participants quite often. When things just are not going right members feel they have no one to go to. They cannot go to the council because that is where the problem is coming from. There should be an available independent ombudsman to give the people a call or have them come in to deal with the problem.
The fifth area of accountability was in terms of having fair elections. Again what in this agreement would ensure fair elections?
In conclusion, clearly the concerns that were expressed by the aboriginal task force members are not dealt with in the Nisga'a agreement. That leads me to wonder whether things will be better for the Nisga'a people and I believe they will not be.