Debates of Feb. 10th, 2000

Human Resources Development

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, what I will confirm is that the final internal audit that looked at the seven programs, grants and contributions in my department as we have shared with the House over and over again was presented to me in its entirety on November 17.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, it is not even close. I am not asking about the audit. I will ask the minister again, when was she first made aware of problems within her department? There is an absolute inconsistency here. When was she first made aware of problems in her department?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, which specific problem is the hon. member referring to?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that answer was absolutely disgraceful. Let us see if we can get a straight answer now from the minister.

The memo from Robert Thériault made it very clear that the Department of Human Resources Development was willing to bend the rules specifically for the Prime Minister.

My question is when will the minister admit that her department knowingly broke the rules so that there could be tax dollars funnelled to the Prime Minister's riding for his political slush fund?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Brant, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there is no evidence that rules were broken.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the memo was very clear. It says specifically that “it is a difficult decision as we depart from regional guidelines”. This is from Robert Thériault in her office. How can she get off saying that there is no evidence that any rules were broken? It is very clear.

When is she going to quit hiding and being evasive and stand up and act like a minister and tell Canadians the truth, that her department funnelled money to the Prime Minister because he wanted to make sure pork got to the people in his riding? That is all it is.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I categorically reject the premise of the hon. member's question.

When we talk about transitional jobs funds, we find those projects in ridings of members of all political stripes. We find those projects in areas of high unemployment. We know that those projects have made a difference in the lives of Canadians who otherwise would not have opportunities to work.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Human Resources Development read the damning report on her department on November 17, 1999. Yet, on December 16, she said in this House, and I quote:

No moneys flowed until the appropriate approvals were in place.

How could the minister make such a statement when the report was full of examples of projects regarding which many mistakes had been made in terms of their approval?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, as I have said on a number of occasions, the question to which the hon. member refers came from the opposition about a specific project. In that specific case no moneys flowed until the appropriate approvals were made.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what can the minister say to justify her December 16 statement in this House, considering that a list provided by her department mentions the case of Bas Iris in the riding of Anjou—Rivière-des-Prairies, which received $5.9 million in grants in 1997-98, but for which approval was only given several months later, on February 4, 1999?

[The Speaker]

As I said yesterday, the questions are very specific. If the hon. minister wishes—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. If the minister wishes to answer the question, she may do so.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, only to say that I agree with you and that I would be glad to take the details from the hon. member and respond to that.

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we have documents that we have talked about which say that right in the minister's office the rules have been broken. The rules have been waived to put money into the Prime Minister's riding.

Is the minister prepared to show up before the public accounts committee which I chair with a document in her hand to tell me why the rules were not broken and why she should not resign?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I want to clarify again that the transitional jobs funds in which we have invested and participated in the Prime Minister's riding were approved by a number of partners. They were approved by private sector investors, by public and private financial institutions, by provincial governments as I have recognized before, by local communities. These projects are not just supported by the federal government but by the communities, by the private sector and by the provincial government in the province of Quebec.

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure if that was a yes.

Is the minister trying to say that the other people who participated in this grant application were duped into paying their share of the funds when the rules were being broken right in her office?

Again, will the minister come to the public accounts committee—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order. The question, please.

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question for the minister is will she come to the public accounts committee and explain why the rules were broken or offer her resignation?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I say again that when we look at these jobs funds we know there are other partners that are there. These are not the full and single decision of investment by the federal government.

I have great respect for the committees of this House. Indeed I was before the human resources committee this morning and will be returning there next week and again after that.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Human Resources Development learned of the mess in her department on November 17, 1999, she says.

Why, one month later, did she tell us in this House that no money had been paid out before it was authorized, when Industries Franc Bois in the riding of Pontiac—Gatineau—Labelle had received $400,000 in 1997-98, funding that was not approved until much later, namely, on February 1, 1999? Why did she tell us that?

[The Speaker]

Once more, the questions are specific. If the hon. minister wishes to respond, I give her permission.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, again there are two things. One, with reference to my comments in the House on December 16, they were made in regard to a specific project. Two, if the hon. member would like to table the details of his particular project on the order paper, I would be glad to respond.