Mr. Speaker, I want to say a few words in this debate as I believe the debate on Bill C-20 is a very important one for the House. This is a very serious bill because it contemplates the potential breakup of our country. It is a very serious debate. Not too many years ago the House of Commons would not have even debated a bill of this sort without contemplating, in terms of legislation, the process of breaking up the country.
I remember very well back in 1981 when the constitution was patriated with the charter of rights. I was a member of the committee. A deliberate decision was made not to put a formula in it on amending process in order to have part of the country exit from Canada. There is no constitutional means to exit from the country in terms of the constitution. That was deliberate. In those days we would not have contemplated a bill like this one before the House of Commons. We are doing something here that is very serious in terms of the future of Canada.
I was disappointed today when the government brought in time allocation for one reason. I think we need a lot of time to have a proper debate, a proper consultation about this very serious issue before the House. Our party is in the process of consulting members and constituents across the country, chaired by the member for Palliser, about what probable amendments we could move to the bill to make it a better bill that is good for all of Canada.
The minister and the House know that we support the bill at second reading in principle, but it is our obligation as parliamentarians to make sure we have the best possible bill for the future of the country. I say that because we have had many potholes along the constitutional trail in the past. Members will recall that patriation was very divisive.
The prime minister of the day, Mr. Trudeau, came in with a bill originally supported by the provinces of Ontario and New Brunswick but opposed by the other eight provinces. After a great debate in the House of Commons and a special Senate-House of Commons committee, the bill ended up being challenged in the Supreme Court of Canada.
The supreme court deliberated on the bill for quite some time and came down with a decision that the bill, if I remember correctly, was legal in terms of the constitutional changes but did not follow proper convention or practice in terms of the constitution of the country.
That forced the prime minister of the day to come back to the House of Commons and introduce several amendments to the patriation act which had been suggested by people across the country. That could have been done before being forced to do so by the Supreme Court of Canada, but it happened only after the intervention of the supreme court. After about a year or so it got through the process. I think there is a danger here that this bill could be expedited too quickly through the whole process.
In terms of the alligators in the constitutional swamp, the Meech Lake accord also taught us quite a bit about the need for as much constitutional consultation with the people of the country as possible. That failure was very unfortunate back in June 1990 because it was the failure of the Meech Lake accord that sprung the birth officially of the Bloc Quebecois in terms of the disappointment of a lot of Quebecers to the accord not going through. It also set us back constitutionally a long time.
Eventually that led to the Charlottetown agreement. Again I think the House and the players at that time tried to put too much in the accord, and eventually of course it did not pass. It led to the spring of the Bloc Quebecois. It led to I suppose the first big jump in support across western Canada of the Reform Party in response to a backlash against what happened in Charlottetown.
If we look throughout history there are many examples of mistakes that were made, partly because there was too much haste and the lack of consultation along the way with the people of the country about proper amendments and a proper process that should be adhered to in any kind of serious constitutional change. This is in many ways the most serious of all. Even although it is not constitutional, it contemplates the potential road map to the breakup of our country, which indeed is extremely serious.
This bill is in response to the supreme court. That is what we are debating today. The bill tries to implement the supreme court decision about a clear question and a clear majority, but one should also say that one mistake that has been made in the past is that too many people have not, I suppose, adhered to what I think is the basic fundamental principle of the legitimate self-determination of the people of Quebec. There is the right of self-determination of a people in this country.
I do believe also that we have to recognize the uniqueness, the differences and the distinctiveness of the province of Quebec. There is some evolution in that direction, I know there is, but I think those things have to be said at the outset when we are debating a bill of this sort.
We should keep in mind that the bill tries to balance what I think are two very fundamental principles and tries to recognize the co-existence of those two fundamental principles. One principle is the right of the National Assembly of Quebec to ask any question any time it wants on any particular issue. This bill does not thwart the ability of the National Assembly of Quebec to ask any question it wants at any time and in any wording it wants on any particular issue. It can do that.
On the other side, the bill says that the Parliament of Canada also has an obligation on behalf of all of Canada before the parliament contemplates a negotiation that may lead to the secession of our country and the separation of our country to determine whether or not that question has been clear vis-à-vis secession and whether or not that question has had a clear majority in terms of the expression of the people of the province of Quebec. These two fundamental principles co-exist and it is important to acknowledge that.
I do not have much time this afternoon so I want to raise four questions which I think we should look at very carefully as we consult our constituents and people across the country and move into the committee phase.
First, the way the bill is worded, does it suffice in terms of a clear question? In my opinion it does. Others may not agree, but I think that is a question we have to look at. Is the question clear in terms of how the bill is worded? Is it the proper way of doing it?
Second, we must look at what the bill says in terms of what is a clear majority. Here I think the answer is more vague. It leaves it up to future parliaments to determine whether or not there is a clear majority. Maybe that parliament would make a wise decision. Maybe that parliament would not be responsible. I do not know. We should look at whether, within the confines of the supreme court decision and within the confines of fundamental democracy, we can more clearly define what a clear majority might be.
I will give hon. members an example of what I mean.
We could have a referendum question passed by 50% plus one, with a 90% turnout, meaning 45% of the people in Quebec said yes to a clear question on separation. We could also have 80% of the people say yes to a clear question but only 50% of the people turn out, which means 40% of the people voted for separation.
How do we decide which of those is the most clear expression? I do not know the answer to that question, but I think the committee has an obligation to see if we can define a bit more clearly what a clear majority should be for any future referendum that might be held in the province of Quebec.
In my remaining two minutes I want to make two more points. A fairly direct amendment could be made to this bill. I think the minister may agree to this one. The first nations people, the aboriginal people, should be given higher recognition in terms of the role they would play in a potential process of consultation. That is something we should do. Any division of the country will affect the aboriginal people, particularly those in the area that would be divided. I do not think their role is high enough and prominent enough in the consultation process. That is one amendment we should look at to make sure that they are properly and fully consulted.
The last point is that one institution the minister is to consult fully is the unelected Senate. In a democracy, for a question this important, this is giving an unelected body a role that is much too prominent. That should be changed.
In terms of trying to refine and define them in accordance to what is best for our country, these are four areas we should look at in committee.