Debates of Feb. 15th, 2000

Human Resources Development

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. This is neither fair to the questioner nor to the person who tries to give the answer. I do not know what the commotion is about because we are here to ask questions and hopefully to get answers from the other side.

[Charlie Penson, Reform, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians are not being fooled by this smokescreen. They are not being fooled by what is happening over there. In fact, they are pretty disgusted by the laughter. A billion dollars of taxpayers' money has been mismanaged and the government thinks it is funny. I do not think it is funny.

Who are these people who benefited from the minister's largesse? The Walton family, which owns Wal-Mart. Four of them are listed in the top 10 list of Forbes as Americans who are the richest people in the world. Why is the minister wasting taxpayers' money on these kinds of people?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, there is no diversionary tactic here.

The Canadian public are not being fooled by a smokescreen that they know to be true, which is that the Reform Party would cut $15 billion out of social programs—just like that. The Reform Party says it wants to kill these programs, except when we ask the individual members who know that the transitional jobs fund, the Canada jobs fund, the opportunities fund and other programs make a difference to individuals in their ridings.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister is trying to put a lid on things by reducing the HRDC scandal to the paltry sum of $251, because he is only too aware that his entire system is being exposed.

Is this whole issue not proof that what the Prime Minister is ultimately trying to do is protect the former minister, the current minister, and the deputy minister from the mediocrity of his government's management and, ultimately, all his cronies?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, here is a member who must have written dozens of letters requesting assistance for people in his riding.

Our government has taken a $42 billion deficit and turned it into a surplus. We have used these programs to reduce unemployment from 11.5% to 6.8%, the lowest level in 25 years. A total of 1.9 million new jobs have been created in the past six years.

All these programs have been organized to help the most disadvantaged in our society. It is always the opposition that demands the most, and now they are pulling their holier-than-thou routine.

National Flag Of Canada Day

[Joe Jordan, Liberal, Leeds—Grenville, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we learned today that Canada's original maple leaf flag is not presently displayed in Canadian museums. Since the committee that chose the flag was chaired by my predecessor and constituent, John Matheson, I would like to ask the Prime Minister whether the original flag will be given to the government.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, today, February 15, is the day for celebrating the Canadian flag which was approved by this parliament 35 years ago. Indeed, the hon. member's predecessor was the chairman of the committee that proposed the flag. The flag was given to the Liberal caucus by the great Canadian, Lester B. Pearson. Today I am very happy to say that the president of the caucus will give the flag to the Minister of Canadian Heritage.

It is a very important flag, which is part of Canada's history, and it will be turned over to Canadian authorities to be preserved for posterity.

Human Resources Development

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, boy, the spin doctors are in full damage control mode today.

The official opposition would like to kill mismanagement and ineptitude by the department and by this minister. That is what we are after.

The minister had a shameful track record when she was at Indian Affairs and Northern Development and also now that she is at HRDC. Millions of dollars were funnelled from HRDC to the Metis Provincial Council of British Columbia, even though she received over 50 complaints about abuse and mismanagement. There is a trend here. The minister knows that, whatever department she is in.

Why did the minister do nothing when she found out about that? Why did she sit on her hands and do nothing while millions of dollars were at stake?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. It is very difficult for the Chair when everyone is talking. From what I made out from the question, it dealt with the responsibilities of the minister in her present portfolio. I believe that is what it dealt with. If it was, she may answer. If it was not, she need not answer.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Edmonton North.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, here we are—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. The first question was out of order. If the hon. minister—

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

No, it was not.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. The hon. member for Edmonton North has the floor.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, would that be for question number one, which was in order, about HRDC money, or question number two?

I would ask the minister to rise to her feet—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. When a question is asked, of course it is asked of the government. The government has a choice as to whether or not to respond to a particular question. It is up to the government. When there is no response we go to the second question. That is why I gave the floor to the hon. member for Edmonton North. I would appreciate it if she would go to her second question.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask about money that was given to the Metis Provincial Council of British Columbia out of HRD funds.

It is not Indian affairs, but I see a pattern developing here about her behaviour in Indian affairs and her behaviour now in HRDC. She received 50 complaints about lack of access, financial improprieties and political interference for heaven's sake. If that is not the administration of the government, I do not know what is.

Why will this minister not stand on her feet, say she is inept and just let this thing go?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, what is so interesting about this diatribe that comes across is that the opposition does not seem to be able to understand the fact that we got information, we made it public and we are dealing with it.

I cannot see what is wrong with that. We are being accountable and we are dealing with information that has been obtained within our department and we are acting upon it.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Speaker, the human resources minister has said that certain ridings that were not eligible for transitional jobs funds received money because of pockets of high unemployment.

Now we have the HRDC officials saying that no clear guidelines were established concerning which ridings and which pockets of high unemployment were eligible.

When were the rules concerning pockets of unemployment changed? Who was informed? Did all 301 MPs receive notice of this change?