Debates of Feb. 21st, 2000

Human Resources Development

[An hon. member]

She does not want to answer.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. I said the question was in order. If the hon. minister wishes to reply, she may.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

I am sorry, Mr. Speaker, I thought you ruled it out of order.

As I have made clear to the House, in my riding there were no rules broken. The terms and conditions of the projects were undertaken appropriately. I delegated the authority for approval to my deputy minister. That was my choice to do and I did it.

[Grant McNally, Reform, Dewdney—Alouette, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister is having trouble explaining that aspect. Let us move to another one.

This weekend the Prime Minister compared the billion dollar boondoggle at human resources to Canadians not being able to balance their chequebooks, a poor analogy to say the least.

When the Prime Minister is entrusted with billions of taxpayers' hard-earned dollars, he has a responsibility to keep track of them. Why does the Prime Minister try to minimize the bungling of a billion dollars as though it were a commonplace occurrence in his government?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, they keep talking about billions of dollars. Everyone knows that there was an audit on cases for $200 million. Out of 459, 37 had problems. Thirty-seven representing $33 million had problems. As I said on Friday, and it is still the same, one more file was completed. Only four more are to be completed. So far $5,974.93 has not been justified.

They talk about billions—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Dewdney—Alouette.

[Grant McNally, Reform, Dewdney—Alouette, BC]

Mr. Speaker, obviously the Prime Minister is back to the minimize theory, that this is not such a big deal after all.

The Prime Minister compared the loss and mismanagement of a billion dollars to Canadians accidentally going over budget at the end of the month. He said, “I think it happens to you at the end of month to see that you have spent a few dollars more than expected”. That is what he said. I can assure you, Mr. Speaker, that there are not too many Canadians who accidentally bungle a billion dollars.

Is the Prime Minister suggesting that his government is so mismanaged that a billion dollar bungle is a commonplace occurrence?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, they use words that have no relation to reality at all. They were all lining up to receive grants in their ridings and that was their duty to do that.

The auditors reported that there were 37 cases with problems representing $33 million. There are four more to be reviewed and the amount of money is the money that they have not been able to trace back.

When they talk about billions of dollars, they have absolutely no—

[The Speaker]

The hon. leader of the Bloc Quebecois.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Human Resources Development said that she had delegated her signing authority to her Deputy Minister in order to not be in a conflict of interest position, that this was the method she had selected. She just said it again a moment ago.

I will ask her again: Did her predecessor do the same? I do not want her to repeat that she chose to do so; this, we know, as she has played the same tape over three or four times.

I would like to ask her very precisely if she can tell this House whether her predecessor also signed a letter delegating his contract signing authority to his deputy minister. I would like her to answer this question.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, what is necessary is to make sure that terms and conditions of grants and contributions are upheld. What is necessary is to make sure that projects are approved with regard to the requirements of those programs. In all cases this was undertaken appropriately.

Hate Crimes

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Secretary of State for Multiculturalism. There have been a number of recent reports including that of the League for Human Rights of B'Nai Brith and more recently by the city of Toronto police attesting to a disturbing rise in hate crimes against vulnerable minorities in the country.

What is the government doing to combat the disturbing and growing incidence of hate crimes throughout the country?

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Secretary of State (Multiculturalism) (Status of Women)]

Mr. Speaker, this government takes that type of activities seriously.

In addition to all the measures already in place, through Bill C-33 we have added sexual orientation to the Canadian Human Rights Act. We have amended the hate crimes legislation to ensure that there is aggravated sentencing for hate crimes.

At the moment I am heading up a round table with the Minister of Justice, the Solicitor General of Canada and Industry Canada to look at issues of new data collecting, of legislation that needs to be improved and of the new—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Peace River.

Human Resources Development

[Charlie Penson, Reform, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, in 1997 an audit of TJF projects in Quebec and Atlantic Canada revealed that grants were too political, that eligibility rules were bent, and that job creation figures were inflated. In fact it described the job creation numbers as misleading and said that pressure to expedite these grants was exerted from the political level.

Given the fact that no action was taken to fix this problem, why should Canadians believe that this program was not working exactly as the Liberals intended, to send out grants for political gain and nothing else?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, first and foremost the hon. member should look at the list available to him now. He will see that more than half of the transitional jobs fund projects are found in opposition ridings. He should also understand that in that review “there was no recommendation that we change from involving local members of parliament in the approval process”.

I would think that the hon. member opposite who likes to represent his constituents would applaud it for having that as part of the flexibility of this program. Mr. Speaker, what the report did say, and maybe you are wanting me to wait until—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Peace River.

[Charlie Penson, Reform, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians are getting pretty angry with the government's gross mismanagement of their money, especially when tax time is right around the corner. The Prime Minister does not seem to think there is anything wrong. He says the billion dollar boondoggle at HRDC—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. The hon. member for Peace River may begin his question again.

[Charlie Penson, Reform, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, with tax time just around the corner Canadians are pretty conscious. They are getting pretty angry with the government's mismanagement of their money, yet the Prime Minister does not seem to think there is anything wrong. He says the billion dollar boondoggle over at HRDC is just business as usual.

Why cannot the Prime Minister understand that the little guy from Shawinigan's fountain, statue, is nothing more than peeing taxpayer money down the St. Maurice River?

[The Speaker]

I am sure we could find other descriptive words than the one that was used. I would hope that we would not use it any more.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, when we know the name of the new party we will know why they are talking about the other end.

Perhaps I should apologize to the residents of the riding of Peace River because unfortunately we used taxpayer money to give grants to the Independent Living Society, the Salvation Army, the Canadian Mental Health Association, the Disabled Transportation Society, the Grande Prairie Children's Society and the North Peace Youth Support Association. It is too bad—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Vancouver East.