Debates of Feb. 22nd, 2000

Human Resources Development

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, my response is consistent. Yes indeed, I did not have to delegate that authority but I did.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that would be a great new story again except for the fact that according to the terms and conditions she cannot delegate that authority. It is not for her to do that. Maybe that will come as a surprise to someone who thinks that the money is her personal money to throw around. She should learn after blowing $1 billion on this boondoggle that Canadians will not accept that type of attitude.

Given that the terms and conditions do not allow the minister to delegate that, how could she tell the leader of the Bloc yesterday that in fact that is the case when the terms and conditions make it very clear she does not—

[The Speaker]

The hon. Minister of Human Resources Development.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, let me try again.

It was not necessary for me to delegate the authority. I did delegate the authority. Of course as minister I remain accountable for all the things that happen in my department. In this particular case the proof is in the pudding. I have not approved any programs or projects in my riding.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Human Resources Development was very self-assured as she tabled her department's documents in an attempt to limit the damage caused by the Human Resources Development Canada grants scandal.

How does the minister explain that the first list obtained from her department through access to information showed $20 million in funds received in the riding of Anjou—Rivière-des-Prairies, while the new list shows $25 million?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I find the question very strange because the hon. member herself is on the standing committee for human resources development that asked for this information which we provided yesterday.

With particular reference to Anjou, let me say that this is one of the largest industrial parks in Quebec. By making wise investments in that riding we found spinoff opportunities for many constituencies around that area.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, let us be clear. The figures provided by her department to access to information with respect to funds distributed differ from the documents received yesterday by $5 million. That is the problem.

I ask the minister whether her cover-up operations have not discredited both access to information and her department because now we believe neither.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I am not clear what the question was but let me try to explain again. In the information we provided, approved amounts and approval dates were on the list. If the hon. member is interested in actual expenditures, she can turn to the estimates of my department.

[Rahim Jaffer, Reform, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, last week the Minister of Human Resources Development tried to dodge responsibility for approving grants to her own riding. She said that she delegated that authority to her deputy minister. When we showed her access documents which proved that she did not delegate that authority, she said a letter would prove otherwise. It did not.

Yesterday the minister told us that the authority was delegated according to Treasury Board guidelines and 10 minutes later she said there were no guidelines. Which is it?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I will try it again. Treasury Board allows me to delegate these authorities to my deputy and I did that. It was not necessary that I do that. I chose to do it.

[Rahim Jaffer, Reform, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I want to clarify this. Yesterday the member for Edmonton North asked a question to which the minister responded “in accordance with Treasury Board guidelines, it was the deputy minister who approved Canada jobs fund money in the riding of Brant in November”. Then to a question from the leader of the Bloc she responded “there is no requirement to undertake this, to create this delegation of authority”.

The minister's credibility is on the line. Will the minister table the legal instrument used to delegate approval authority to her deputy minister?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, in my view the right thing to do was to delegate the authority for approval of projects in my riding. Is the hon. member saying that he does not think this was the appropriate thing to do?

[Stéphan Tremblay, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday I asked the Minister of Human Resources Development why her predecessor had not signed a letter similar to hers delegating signing authority to the deputy minister. She did not answer me.

I am therefore asking the same question of the minister today. Can she explain to us why her predecessor did not sign such a letter?

[The Speaker]

The question as put is somewhat ambiguous—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. Perhaps the minister can know a fact, but I do not think she can know a reason. If the minister wishes to respond, she may.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, as minister I am responsible for the decisions made in my riding. It was my choice to delegate the authority for approval for Canada jobs funds in my riding to the deputy. It is not necessary that that be done.

[Stéphan Tremblay, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, by her reply, is the minister implying that her predecessor did not sign such a letter?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I will respond again. As minister I am responsible for the decisions that are made but I felt it appropriate to delegate the authority to my deputy in this particular regard.

[Val Meredith, Reform, South Surrey—White Rock—Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, apart from putting up the occasional Liberal caucus meeting, hotels in the Prime Minister's riding are more in the government grant racket than in the accommodation business. Take the Hôtel du Boisé. It received $300,000 but no investments were made and no jobs were created.

Is the Prime Minister so unaware of normal business practices, like providing services and sales, that he thinks that $300,000 was a good investment for Canadian taxpayers?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, let us be clear here. The hon. members opposite can play politics and pick and choose on individual projects. They can undermine—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order. We have heard the question. I am sure all hon. members would like to hear the answer. The hon. Minister of Human Resources Development.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Brant, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the fact remains that of the well over 1,000 projects that were part of the transitional jobs fund in the Prime Minister's riding, in my riding and the riding of members of parliament across the country, people are working that would not have had the opportunity otherwise.

That party suggests that everybody can do it on their own, but we do not feel that way. We believe there is a role for the Government of Canada to play in helping areas of high unemployment define opportunities, to encourage diversity in their economies, to provide opportunities for people.

[Val Meredith, Reform, South Surrey—White Rock—Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we could talk about lists, but I have a list here of companies that went bankrupt, $900,000, $260,000, $920,000, none of them providing any jobs.

One example is New Source Bottling run by a good Liberal from Kenora that created only 7 out of 18 jobs that it was supposed to be providing. It went belly up after it got $200,000. The list that I read from goes on and on and on.

In what way is pouring good money down the drain—