Debates of March 1st, 2000

Human Resources Development

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. The hon. member for Edmonton North.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Let me quote from Hansard :

As long as he keeps silent on this issue, he gives every Canadian...the impression that he himself, the Prime Minister, is there to help his friends, the friends who helped him.

That was not someone from the official opposition. That was this heritage minister back in the days when she believed that prime ministers should be accountable.

How can the Prime Minister brag that this little six point plan can fix everything—

[The Speaker]

The hon. Deputy Prime Minister.

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, this six point plan has been approved and endorsed by an officer of the House, the auditor general, who is also carrying out his own inquiry. Is the hon. member saying that the auditor general is also wrong and does not know what he is talking about?

No wonder the hon. member in her previous question said that we need help. Yes, the Reform Party needs lots of help. It is going down the drain, as proven by the fact that it has not had one question, one quarrel, one comment adverse to our great budget. Thanks again for the endorsement.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister says that no project was transferred to the riding of Saint-Maurice, that the file remained in Montreal and that no jobs were created in the riding.

If the Prime Minister's statement is accurate, if it is true that no money was invested in the ridings of Saint-Maurice or Rosemont, could the minister tell us where the money went?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is aware that we have an outside forensic audit team looking at this particular file. We will report to the House when we have information.

When we look at the province of Quebec and find that the majority of grants and contributions are in Bloc ridings, we know that there is no intention here to do anything except to support the people of that province who need help.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, help is needed in Rosemont but they send the project to Saint-Maurice. This is some logic.

The deputy minister informed us that a lease had been signed between Mr. Perreault and Mr. Goldberger in Saint-Élie-de-Caxton because, supposedly, no facilities were available in Rosemont. Based on the deputy minister's version, jobs would therefore have been created in Saint-Maurice.

Under these conditions, how can the minister tell us that she does not know where the money is?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I am not going to comment further on the details in this program until I have the information that will allow me to do so.

I again remind the hon. member and his party that in every transitional jobs fund and Canada jobs fund program the province of Quebec, headquarters for the Bloc Quebecois, approved of the project, including—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Rosemont.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister is telling us she does not know that five jobs were created. This is what she seems to be telling us. Yet, when she spoke to me last Thursday, her deputy minister seemed perfectly aware of the creation of these five jobs in Saint-Élie-de-Caxton.

Still, could the minister tell us if an amount of $165,984 normally helps create only five jobs?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, what is normal is that I will wait to comment on the details of this program until I have the appropriate information.

Let us be clear that the ridings represented by these members of parliament have benefited tremendously by the help of the Government of Canada and the people of Canada because we know that there are opportunities for us to help them.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister still refuses to answer our questions after all these days. Yet the number of coincidences keeps going up.

Maurice Perreault, who benefited from the creation of the five jobs, praises the Prime Minister in his March 1997 leaflet. Mr. Goldberger transferred the jobs from Rosemont to Saint-Maurice and this situation is of concern to the deputy minister. It is there in black and white.

Does the government, which knows everything that happens in opposition ridings, know what is going on in the Prime Minister's riding?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, we will make information available on this file as the right information becomes available.

What is really interesting is that in the week the budget has been presented that party also chooses to ignore it. I gather that it too—

[The Speaker]

Order, please. The hon. minister still has time if she wishes to use it.

Health Care

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, this budget does not get the job done in health care. Either these Liberals are so out of touch that they do not know there is a crisis in health care or they just refuse to take responsibility to solve it. Whichever it is, it is just as good as handing a licence to the Mike Harris' and the Ralph Kleins of this world to shred medicare.

Why will this government not put health care first?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, it will take two things to resolve the problems in health care: One is money and the other is ideas and hard work.

In terms of money, over the last two years we have increased the cash transfers to the provinces for health by 25%. In terms of ideas and hard work, I have an open invitation to ministers of health to meet with me next week, if they can, to talk about where we go from here, working together to resolve the issues in medicare. That is federal leadership.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, if the health minister wants to talk money then let us talk money. The fact is that in this budget for every dollar in tax cuts two cents goes to cash transfers to health care. That is the reality and those are the facts.

My question is very straightforward. How bad does the health care crisis have to get before the government takes any action to solve it?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I am grateful for the member's two cents worth but the reality is far different from what she suggests.

Public spending on health will be $60 billion next year; $20 billion of that will be financed by the Government of Canada. One-third of public spending on health next year will be financed by Ottawa. That has increased a lot over the last couple of years.

In the future, as circumstances permit, we will do more but it will take money and hard work. We are offering both. We want to work with the provinces to make sure we keep medicare and make it serve Canadians well.

Human Resources Development

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Prime Minister informed the House that on February 2 he asked the RCMP to investigate the $2.5 million HRDC grant to CITEC in his riding.

Based on his actions and answers, the Prime Minister obviously knew that the RCMP were investigating this potentially illegal grant on February 2.

How could he stand in the House on February 9 and tell Canadians that only $251.50 of HRDC funds were unaccounted for? Where has truth and accountability in government gone?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that the Prime Minister was talking about the 37 cases out of the some 400 in the initial audit that had been referred for further investigation. He gave information based on his understanding of the results of the audit up to that point.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

It must be selective memory, Mr. Speaker, because on February 9 the Prime Minister stated that only $251.50 was problematic. Yet six months ago the RCMP began an investigation into PLI Environmental and its $1.6 million grant and wage subsidies package from HRDC.

How in good faith and good conscience could the Prime Minister stand in the House and tell Canadians that only $251.50 was questionable when six months previous he knew the RCMP were already investigating a potential fraud of millions of dollars?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is mixing apples and oranges.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. When a question is asked, surely we want to hear the answer.